Jago Oki Tutorial Videos

Characters Jago
21

I’ll try to tackle these paragraphs one at a time.

First: Shago’s demon is only throw invincible, so the setup off sweep and lvl 4 battery ender will beat the demon. I made sure to test that. This is because in these instances the jump in or the fireball hit meaty, causing him to be hit out of start up.

Second: safejumps are just another option on a knockdown. Any instance where you land a sweep, you could’ve walked up and did a ground meaty or whatever instead. The strength of a safejump is that it forces respect and works towards conditioning. For example, let’s say I safejump a player a few times in a match. The player might finally realize, “maybe I shouldn’t reversal, and just block.” Once I’ve conditioned my opponent to respect on wakeup, I can be a bit more daring in my mixups, such as going for an empty jump low, empty jump throw, or whatever else I may decide. They’re a way to open the door the stronger oki possibilities, they aren’t necessarily the be all end all (unless your opponent is a huge moron and insists on DPing it every time, in which case you can just keep doing it and murder them)

As for the opponent’s options, they do have a few. The obvious one is to simply block it and take the pressure, which I’d argue you rightfully earned off a knockdown anyway. Since this is KI, they can always try to Shadow Counter after blocking the jump in. Another thing they can do is backdash on wakeup, but if you anticipate it, you can always chase the backdash with something or even OS it. As for if a safejump crosses up, it depends on the setup in question. I will say that if you happen to land the sweep particularly close, you will end up crossing up when you jump forward when you pass over them.

The crossup itself is the “oki.” Oki, or Okizeme, is just a term to describe the wakeup game, or stuff you do on the opponent’s wakeup. Consider this: in even a game like Street Fighter 2, if I knock the opponent down I have a couple options. I can jump at them and even decide to crossup, forcing them to guess left/right, or even empty jump and go low. This combination of decisions I can do is the oki game itself. As for what to do if it gets blocked, you have frame advantage and thus can apply pressure in whatever way the character does so.

22

oh i figure out how to kara fireballs. This video shows it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iDwp0quOXM

Basically you cancel the recovery by whiffing s mk as the fireball gets blocked, and then fireballing. If you do qcf mk fireball it works easy

I’m… not quite sure of it’s utility but forward moving fireballs is always nice. Close range fireball hits too fast to kara cancel so i dunno why youd do overhead,

23

The trick to Jago’s kara cancel is that the engine lets you cancel normals into specials if the opponent is in block stop (not block stun), even on whiff. For some reason, they don’t test if the normal you’re pressing is the thing that is causing the block stop. So if you can set up meaty fireball, such that you are in neutral when the fireball causes block stop, then you can press a normal and kara-cancel it into fireball, as if you were simply doing normal xx fireball on a blocking opponent. This tends to move Jago forward, like most good kara cancels do, and it makes his zoning a little more potent because you can throw meaty fireball -> fireball very fast from a range you can’t otherwise walk to. I think some Jago player did some testing and you can jump over “regular” meaty fireball -> fireball, but you can’t jump over the kara version, which means Jago in instinct gets to build a ton of extra meter, or confirm with more unbreakable damage if the first fireball hits, etc etc.

24

Okay, I need reminders for what the following are:

Kara-cancels
Block-stop
xx

…in order to understand your explanation.

EDIT: @MDMMORNING addressed my concern in a PM. :grin:

1 Like
25

False. Every character in the game has okizeme options, and Shago’s aren’t bad by any means. If plus on block pressure is what you want, then he has good normals with which to achieve this. Shago has left/right/high/low/throw pressure off most of his good close normal buttons, and you don’t always have to be negative bajillion to go for much of these options. Understand that you are not forced to go for unsafe mixups if you don’t want to - Shago has good enough buttons that he can frame trap pretty effectively if that what he wants to do. But also understand the value of keeping someone honest by using the unsafe mixup options judiciously.

And as someone else said, if someone blocks your safe jump then you are now at advantage in front of them - use those plus frames to press your advantage further.

2 Likes
26

ok this is something thats missing from my understanding of fighting games. Youre right, Oki and + on block are synonymous to me. Do you have a good tutorial video about how buttons work that translates well to how Shago does Wakeup shenanigans?

27

Not really. If you want to know Shago’s good frame trap buttons, then I’d suggest going into practice and just checking out the frame data on all his normals (anything that is plus on block is a good candidate). If you want to know more about frame data in general, you can just YouTube frame data tutorials. You can also reach out to other good Shago players, like @ZeroSyndicate. Think you can help him out Zero?

So we should definitely try and clear this up right now. Oki is short for Okizeme, which basically just refers to pressure on knockdown. So a meaty button is oki, as is a safe jump, a cross-up, or a meaty throw. Basically, any pressure you apply (even if it’s kinda crappy pressure) as someone is getting up qualifies as “oki”.

“Plus on block” refers to pressure options where even if blocked, you are at frame advantage (if you and your opponent both mash jab, yours will hit first). It is a very specific term to define a very specific interaction, and shouldn’t be conflated with okizeme. A meaty plus on block button is probably a good okizeme option, but a negative bajillion instant-air cross up divekick could also be a solid oki option depending on the circumstance. Plus on block pressure has uses throughout the match, and doesn’t just refer to when someone is knocked down.

28

Assume I know nothng outside of tutorial mode in KI. Because thats more or less my experience with fighting games.

For some reason whenever i approach someone on KI discord, they assume Im some OG sf boi crossing over to KI. Im assuming its because of the FGC before my name making me look like a bigshot. My old name was FPS Slamjam, I played CS before retiring from shooters in general for fighters, thats why the FGC is there. Assume I know nothing.

I say this because I have NO frame of reference for all these words. Could you give me an example of a frametrap? Or a basic frametrap I can try with base jago? You dont need to dump every known tech for Jago, I dont want or need that right now. Im slightly above button mashing at this point so playing the game legit is what matters to me the most.

Do you have any resources outside of hiring Gootecks for a week that can help me build the right understanding for fighter games?

29

A frame trap with jago: 6HK, 2LP. You go from a move that’s plus on block to one that has fast startup. If your opponent does anything without strike invul, they get hit.

Some resources just for learning terms and stuff:

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php/Notation

http://iplaywinner.com/glossary/

2 Likes
30

ok, can you get into a combo from that frame trap? Or is the purpose of frame traps just to extend buttonbased punishes? And I dont know what you mean by 6 HP and 2 LP.

31

If you don’t understand, you should click on the links I posted.

This sequence does combo, but 6HK (jago’s double roundhouse) is confirmable on its own so there’s no reason to use that sequence if it hits. It’s common in KI for frame trap sequences to not combo without counter hit, or not combo at all–thus, frame traps that DO combo are very good, and part of the reason why characters like wulf and riptor are so scary when they’re in on you.

Frame traps aren’t really related to punishes. If you have a punish, you just go into a combo, simple as that. A frame trap is intended to open up a defending opponent by attacking them when you could go for another option they need to defend against differently–typically a throw.

1 Like
32

So you should definitely check out the links @DEClimax gave you. But here are some general definitions I posted somewhere on here a while back.

Meaty - an attack that is out (active) as an opponent is getting up. Basically, they stand up into an attack, and unless they try an invincible reversal (like a DP) whatever they do will get hit before it can come out.

Safe jump - a jumping attack that will hit an opponent on their wakeup (is meaty), but lands before any invincible reversal they try can come out to hit. So I can do a jump+HP on you as you’re getting up, and if you don’t block on wakeup you’ll get tagged by the jump HP, but if you try to DP me, I’ll have landed already and be able to block it.

Positive on Block - an attack that, after an opponent blocks, leaves you coming out of recovery before he comes out of block stun. Simple example: In a Jago v Jago mirror, if one player does a double roundhouse and mashes jab, and the other player blocks and then mashes jab, Player 1 (the one who did the double roundhouse) will win the trade. His jab will start up 3 frames faster than the other Jago, because double roundhouse is “plus on block” by 3 frames. Basically, you get to act before they do.

Frame trap - generally, just some string of attacks where a defender can push a button, but will be counter hit for doing so. It’s pressure with gaps in it, and because trying to poke through will get you hit instead, it is a “trap”. Good example is Hisako’s HP rekka string - there’s space for you to try to mash jab or jump out in between the hits, but if you do, you’re going to be eating a combo. Can also be done with certain buttons that have favorable frame data - moves that are plus on block are generally very good for this reason.

Reset - to intentionally drop a combo to start a new one. Due to scaling, attacks tend to do less damage the further you get in the combo, and if you started the combo with a low damage button (like a LK), you’re only going to be able to get so much damage out of it. So instead of finishing the combo, you drop it and try to start a new combo. It’s a way to very quickly build up damage on an unsuspecting opponent. A good example of this is Wulf dropping a combo, dashing through, and then tagging you with a low to start a new one, or Jago dropping a combo and then immediately hitting you with an overhead.

33

Frametraps are like Cancels in Magic. Got it.

I give them an opening for them to do somethng so I can counter it.

1 Like
34

sorry for the late response, finally settled after KIT. @FGCSlamjam so for shago frame traps you’re going to base it off of his cl.MK and Cr.mk, or cr. lp/lk. They’re his best buttons as they’re +1 on block. His lp an lk are 0 which technically is safe, but you’re not going to get a frame trap off of them. You can dabble with lp>lk vice versa problem is you can jab em out so they aren’t true. An option is if you have meter you can surge fireball makes you mad plus, a string you can use is cr.mk>surge fireball problem with that is they can just crouch block an make the 2nd fireball miss making you punishable. Gotta play around with Shago and situations, he’s not like jago in that regard, although his buttons are almost the same.

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35

Shago isn’t really based on frame traps. He is more based on mix-ups that are unsafe unless you have meter.

36

shago has great neutral you should definitely use it

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37

OOOOHHHH!! Ive been wondering about cr.lp for the longest time. I was in the dojo looking at his frame data and I was like “why would I ever use this over lk or st.lp?” (st.lp has more range and it didnt bring your hitbox forward like cr.lp iirc) Now I realize its a frametrap tool.

LK is a good way to add a little bit more confusion for shago juggles and nmanuals btw. standing cl.LK and standing cl.HK look similar unless you know what to look for.

38

Maybe not ‘based’ on it, but every character can frametrap people and get mileage out of it. If your opponent likes to mash, and frametraps are working, why not just keep doing that instead of going for a potentially risky mixup?

2 Likes
39

again not the greatest trap as any light will trade