Is Gargos cheap?

So its official after seeing a glimpse of Shadow Lords Gargos is indeed cheap. :ok_hand:

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Yeah, he seems cheapā€¦until he wants you to buy all the accessoriesā€¦

What? B**ch be a gold diggerā€¦

In all seriousness though he has some pretty good zoning with the portal punches, and if you can get his minions out and then place yourself on one side of the opponent and them in the other he can really open someone up. But if your opponent gets up close & applies pressure itā€™s hard to get out of that situation.

Yup. Gargos is good and he has dirty stuff. Because this is KI and every character has dirty stuff. We all (myself included) bring ideas of ā€œfairnessā€ into the game from other places. But within the context if KI I donā€™t think Gargos is unfair.

ā€¦wellā€¦maybe a little unfairā€¦I had a match yesterday where Dretch turned my loss into a double koā€¦but good luck trying to replicate that.

Whatā€™s ā€œunfairā€ is doing an ultra and a minion pokes me out of it.

The cast has options?.. Tell that to Thunder players lmaoooooo

Is walking forward and blocking no longer a thing? Does sammamish no longer blow through projectiles? Does MK follow-up no longer drag him forward a bit more?

Thunder is a big slow grappler, and yes, big slow grapplers will tend to struggle with hardcore zoning. But he has options.

I donā€™t disagree with you there. I think the biggest issue that a lot of people are having playing against Gargos (myself included) is finding the proper windows to punish. Where it seems like you would be able to punish a gargos move with a special, some character moveset end up out of reach & just wonā€™t allow it. If Iā€™m using thunder, Dpā€™ing never reaches him, or either always whiffs past him, under him, etc. If I manage to nail a solid DP itā€™s just luck. Itā€™s definitely not an enjoyable character to play against win or lose. I never really take anything from that particular MU even if I win, & THAT is the part thatā€™s cheap to me.

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Gargos is gimmicky, but not OD. He has very poor defense, Iā€™m talking Free in hard knockdown situations. He dies to oki. His only reversal is super unsafe on block and whiff, and making it whiff is easily done on reaction.

He has alot of unsafe stuff. His only chance in most matchups is minions, and to set those up he needs meter and space, which you shouldnā€™t be giving him, especially space.

Heā€™s a zoner with assissts and superior air mobility, and a grapple that leads to good mixup potential albeit poor or no damage. Heā€™s designed to be a nuisance, itā€™s part of the plan. His zoning and all his nuances donā€™t do crazy damage but they do add up if you insist on not defending and waiting your turn to play.

I think the reason people are mad is because gargos forces you to play how he wants, not how you want. Patience is key, approaching/fighting a zoner requires you to calculate your movement and play a more deliberate reactionary game.

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I agree with both of you. But I compare it with Hack-A-Shaq tactic in the NBA which is an effective and legal strategy and game plan. For fans, it can be atrocious to watch. Similarly, I have been skipping matches with certain characters on various streams that I just donā€™t want to watch anymore. In the end, itā€™s still entertainment to me. If not just fighting a character but actually watching match footage gets annoying then itā€™s not a good thing to me personally. Also the strategy that needs to be applied to combat zoning, is not entertaining imho. Itā€™s of course subjective, because I never got tired of watching a good Kan Ra, but for some reason certain characters arenā€™t as enjoyable to watch regardless of who is playing.

I remember the poll they did before the start of S3 and it included a question on what characters are annoying to fight against. Really interested to know what came out of it (except complaints about Kan Ra). I think itā€™s a problem inherent to the archteype but do we really need certain moves in KI that annoy everyone?

Hack-A-Shaq Wikipedia

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Gargos is making me super salty when things go right they are great when they go sour it sucks lol!

Is he really dependant on minion gameplay?

5 dollars is not that expensive, so maybe he is kind of cheap

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Not necessarily. Heā€™s got enough other tricks if you donā€™t get yourself trapped in a corner you can play fine without them. But they do help you open up your opponent and make a lot of his unsafe moves a lotā€¦erā€¦saferā€¦

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I agree in the corner heā€™s definitely screwed. :confused:

I hate playing the ā€œlame gameā€ with him, like most Gargos Iā€™ve seen. Hmmmā€¦instead of the lab I might have to play a few live matches and see what I can come up with.

Gargos needs to either be right on top of the opponent (in range for his cross ups and command grabs) or very far away. If youā€™re close though, itā€™s imperative that you be the one on offense - once Gargos loses momentum in that range heā€™s in trouble.

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Thatā€™s pretty much the game play I try to go for. Up close but I still get beat out with the exception of light attacks. (Jabs or light kick) The command grabs whiff on me, if an opponent moves or jumps.

You have to condition them on how they should be blocking. His command grab can lead to precious momentum and you need that. On thing that Iā€™ve been using more often is his j.MP as an instant overhead. Itā€™s really good to keep the pressure going and to mix up with your command grab, normal or shadow.

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I agree I discovered in the lab how much of a GOOD button it is. (0.o) I get the command grab now about 70% of the time now. Good AA too.

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Spamming portal punch? A player has to give me a reason not to spam it, lol. Honestly I have no idea why people back off against Gargos as soon as they get a life lead. You really need to be white on rice to shut him down.

You really shouldnt be too close to him either. St.Lk cr.Mk, cr.Lp are very good check buttons. Then his command grab after you been getting checked 3-4x in a row is just mentally guranteed. Then you can reset the crap outta the grab after dealing 6-9% damage with it. Then j.Mp conditioning into various options like st.HK anti-air, anti-air grab, air grab, Or the ground mix-up i hinted at earlier, and finally bait and block for full punish. Once a Gargos masters the true art of flying then their level of character mastery explodes further.

I recommend standing where Gargos cant st.Mk you. Heā€™s weak AF there.