I’m asking because I’m not really sure. When you activate instinct you are in frame 0 or positive?

0 frame startup, 0 frame recovery. Take that as you will.

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It starts and recovers immediately, so say you’re in the middle of Jago’s fHP and you pop instinct after the first kick.

If you try to do a non invincible move you will get hit by that second kick. So if you have an invincible dp it should come out and beat the second kick. Or you can shadow counter the second hit and turn the tables on Jago. Or just keep eating the pressure and waste your time.

You can’t pop instinct while in blockstun. So the first hit after you activate it can’t be shadow countered.

I know certain pressure moves have gaps in them. So Jago’s fHP might be a bad example here. It was the first that came to mind.


The point

Jago doesn’t have a f.HP, but he does have a f.HK. :wink:

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Oof I’m messing up this morning.

Instinct gives you one additional frame of advantage. If RAAM uses Instinct and does Shadow command grab (1 frame startup), it’s a true unavoidable grab if you are on the ground the moment he uses Instinct.

I might be wrong though. Set up a dummy to do Instinct, then a 5-frame jab. Try to press a jab of your own right after the Instinct and see if you get counter hit out of it.

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That’s not advantage, that’s startup speed. And I think only TJ has that.

I think the Raam thing is a bug.

To be more complete, using Instinct will definitely make you plus if you cancel into it from a blocked attack, because you still inflict all of the block stun, but don’t suffer the recovery frames.

A jump test would probably be better. Have the dummy activate Instinct then hold up while you hold up at the same time and see if they jump at the same time.

Only TJ has what?

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Decreased startup on moves during instinct.

Oh. That’s not the point of doing that test. The point is that by doing 2 attacks with identical startup speeds after Instinct, you could see if either of them hits before the other, which would indicate that one had a frame advantage. In any case, the jump test is better because it doesn’t require reversal timing.

It is not. All instinct activations essentially “eat” one frame from your next action. If I am standing next to Jago and he pops instinct and mashes jab during the freeze, and I mash jab during the freeze, his jab will always counter hit me. Another example that you see a lot is standing neutral to Hisako in the mirror - if one Hisako pops instinct and does heavy influence, and I input my heavy influence in the freeze as well, then my influence will always win, because it remains active for 1 frame longer.

Raam’s case is just the first instance where something becomes literally inescapable because of the instinct freeze.

I’ll hit the lab right away to check that. Thanks!