Ok, so Fulgore doesn’t really need a change to his instinct but I would like to see a change because his current instinct mode is boring and doesn’t feel like a game-changer.
I would suggest that instead of just giving him max spin speed, make it so his current spin speed (speed upon activation of instinct) is multiplied by 2 or maybe 1.5 and increase what his normal spin speed would be at any given time by this factor (essentially doubling his minimum speed, max speed, and everything in between). In addition to this change, the HP+HK command during instinct could increase his spin speed instead of giving him 1 whole pip. These changes would increase his overall meter gain (especially at max speed) but also make it so he needs to work a bit for it or at least find the time to charge.
Again, this isn’t really necessary, but I think it would make his instinct mode a bit more thoughtful. If his opponent can outlast the pressure and the pip cancels, then Fulgore will begin to loose steam.
I think it’s unnecessary, as it basically fills the same role as the older Instinct in just a slightly different way. Fulgore’s Instinct is already extremely potent as it always has the reactor going at max speed. This can be especially dangerous considering he is getting free shadow meter every second and he doesn’t have to worry about using plasma or laser moves.
Oh but it is a game changer. No one wants to deal with fulgore when his reactor is going max speed
I guess so, I think I just wanted it to be a little more interesting. I’m not a fan of instinct modes like Kim Wu, Fulgore, Hisako, Old Spinal, and Kan Ra that are just “give the character infinite resource and maybe one other minor attribute”. I know there is more to it then that, but I like Instinct modes that add something completely new to the character, Like Gargos, Sadira, Tusk, Wulf, and others. When I say “game changer” I like to mean that it literally changes the game play mechanics to an extent.
I know what you’re on about but changing Fulgore’s instinct too much would probably throw players off for a while depending on what the new instinct would do etc.
It is if you’re someone who has trouble building meter at the match. Though I’d also use it as a way to track your performance. If you don’t have enough meter near the end of your green lfiebar and need instinct to charge it. Then you need to change something.
Personally I like the current way it goes because I can do alot of stuff while I wait for the charge and get more pips quicker when it’s safe to charge them.
I understand if you want something fresh and new but it’s ok that not every character has a “uniqe” instinct. Especially when you conisder the other things like the main gameplay which adds to it.
If anything needs to change to Fulgore’s instinct, he needs a small trait that makes his instinct more lets say, skillful to use. Fulgore’s instinct is the only instinct in the game where I feel you’d always activate it when you have or use as a frame stop and nothing more. Every other character gets some little game changer, whether it be projectiles, health, frame advantage, armor, speed, damage, chip, range to even altering the properties of moves themselves. Fulgore just gets spin speed which is something he can earn in neutral anyways. I know Fulgore already has a lot of tools if not more than most, but his instinct could use a little something. If anything, I would have it grant full meter movement without full meter why? Because it will make more sense to use it wisely, and have a purpose to give you a small upper hand, I mean when he pops instinct, there is nothing new you can expect. Tj gets new combo opportunities, Tusk becomes a monster, Aganos gets to play unbeatable footsies from full screen, there are plenty of instincts that alter the entire match for a little while and require more knowledge to play against. It would be similar to before, everything his instinct grants, he can gain in neutral anyways, except prerequisits are removed. Simple change that would have a big impact.
Fulgore’s instinct definitely does not need buffs. You will reliably get ~6 pips from it, with charges thrown in you’re realistically looking at 7-8 at least. And that’s just the instinct duraction, keep in mind that he keeps his reactor speed when instinct ends. What that means is that if you aren’t spending excessive meter in the first round and you’re getting your hits in, you can pretty reliably get to beam before your first life bar ends.
Instinct absolutely DOES change the way fulgore plays. The fact that he gets to play for 15 seconds with no reactor speed penalties means he gets to really take advantage of his extremely nasty options that are normally killing his meter gain. His zoning becomes truly scary, being able to toss out multi-projectiles, cancels into and out of heavy laser, and teleports that come out of nowhere for some surprise offense. He can make use of normally expensive strings like medium laser > fireball in his pressure, and only spend a pip rather than taking the painful hit of two energy system moves in a row. When he doesn’t have to worry about lowering his reactor speed, all his strengths get stronger.
It’s true that fulgore’s instinct doesn’t create as drastic an increase in strength as something like TJ’s, but fulgore’s starting from a higher baseline level of effectiveness anyway. If you’ve gotten the impression that fulgore’s instinct doesn’t change up his gameplay like other instincts, you’re probably not playing good enough fulgores.
I completely know what options he gets from his instinct by going crazy, but with proper play, he can do that without instinct anyways. So in the end it is still underwhelming. Him having the idea of instinct putting him into overdrive, should give him his full mobility with or without meter. It gives him a chance to change the pace more on his terms. The best way to beat a Fulgore is stick to him, his instinct won’t stop that no matter how much meter he has. Having a low meter instinct activation where he can use his full potential backdash to try and reset positioning would be a good change for him. Basically his instinct is as strong as the opponent allows it to be. If they starve him for meter, and whoop on him, his instinct serves a higher chance giving him meter gen and mobility to try and turn the battle. If he is on full meter, he already has the mobilty, so using instinct will have a mediocre payoff. Not having the projectile penalty is nice in instinct, but his options in zoning are still the same, he can just do it a couple more times. But his zoning only covers neutral space. It can be low profiled until footsie range, and do not cover air space unless you jump into DP range. The only scary part is the left right setup. Which is there with or without instinct.
Fulgore with full meter mobility, not even taking hype beam into account, is already one of the strongest characters in the game when accounting for special circumstances. Giving him access to that without making him actually work get to and maintain full meter would not be an improvement to the game in any sense.
I don’t see how it would change the tide of battle any different from any other instinct would. What about Kan-Ra? His instinct gives him his mobility requirement free, or Cinder always being fired up? Those are similar circumstances.
The difference is that fulgore, even after his nerfs, is still a top 5 character and maybe even still a contender for the number 1 spot. Like I already said, he’s starting at a baseline level of effectiveness higher than either of those characters. He already gets good utility from his instinct, letting him really go wild doing stuff that’s normally just not a good idea. He does not need to also kick his mobility into overdrive for 15 seconds at a time regardless of his meter state. Contrary to your idea that using that form of his instinct would be a mediocre payoff with his meter full, I think it would always be too strong regardless of the amount of meter he has.
Old thread, but ill post.
Having double spin speed would mean that ONE successful combo leads to tons of meter, followed by a set up in which they are free to use more meter to make it more ambiguous, or use more meter to make it safe and try again.
It would be near impossible to get out of. Even if you blocked it ALL, he would still be gaining meter as you block. It would be easier to get up against Sadira than a Fulgore with double spin speed.
I’m kinda garbage so this might be stupid or broken and I just can’t comprehend it but I think it’d be a big game changer giving fulgore pips for his auto triples. I understand that going into instinct enhances his zoning but if I’m pressuring, I hate to think “oh sick, now I can give up my pressure and zone without as much of a penalty.” Not sure if this is the sort of combo potential you’re thinking of @SullenMosquito but it’ll make his combos a lot scarier since his triples are actually worth a damn now and the opponent has to risk the break and risk the counter break. I often times find myself at nearly max spin speed anyways even without instinct and very rarely ever want to just end pressure and do the manual charge for a pip. So what do you guys think about this little change to his instinct?
No, as far as combo opportunities I meant more or less instinct only combos. Tj can manual off advantage ender, Jago can manual heavies from medium linker and mediums from light linker, hisako has her counter hit combos ect ect. Fulgore’s auto triples granting pips is a tad much being he already generates meter fast. He would be able to do 70% guaranteed off any counter breaker instinct cancel. You can do 2 auto triple kicks and a shadow no prob which would give you shadow DP cash out free. Meter isn’t the issue with Fulgore, it’s that in or out of instinct his game is the same. You can zone with or without pips. You can’t be extra mobile without pips. Lots of instincts grant mobility on top of other traits. Tj gets speed and revive, Riptor gets speed and range, Kan-Ra gets all sand trap tools without sand trap, Fulgore’s instinct boils down to this. Do I have meter? A: Yes don’t pop yet unless situationally viable. B: No, pop it immediately. Yeah you get pip cancels but, who needs that many pip cancels? Unless people are falling for them repeatedly, any pip cancel into DP grants more than it costs. The only cancels that lose are a failed teleport setup, which can be done without pip canceling anyways. It’s a hard thing to explain but, he needs an out of combo instinct trait that does something other than meter gain.
I’ll say again what I said a month ago: letting fulgore have full-meter mobility whenever he pops instinct is a terrible idea.
Thunder gets infinite dashes, Kan-Ra gets sand trap mobility, the argument still stands that I don’t think it will change the game as much as people think. Fulgore’s instinct is passive. It generates a resource and that’s it. Mobility won’t give him frame advantage, or better setups, he still has to preform the offense as he normally would. Let’s also clarify that full meter mobility can be obtained before an instinct bar so basically it’s granting a tool he can already get just under a different circumstance. Dashes can still be chased down, footsies can still be outplayed, he won’t be any different from where he can be when the second bar starts if he played conservatively.
I mean technically thunder and kanra have full access to their infinite mobility options pre instinct. Not quite the same but mixup teleport mixup teleport could also be seen as fulgore new capability as you have free reign to do all the meter burning you want.
By who? Fulgore on ice skates is one of the most uncatchable characters in the game. Not even Hisako can run him down if he doesn’t want to be caught, and trying is a good way to eat a blade dash to the face.
Fulgore with full-pip mobility is borderline unreasonable to deal with. He can fly into and out of your effective range multiple times within the span of a second, and when he commits to moving back he’s almost impossible to catch. Automatic full-pip-mobility Fulgore upon instinct activation is a terrible idea - no one wants to deal with that nonsense.
I’ve never found it that hard to deal with full meter Fulgore but, that’s probably because I play him. Or the ones I’ve faced just weren’t that effective with it. Thanks for going a little in depth, helps to understand. 