Impressions w/o the Lab

Characters Kilgore
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DISCLAIMER: WALL OF TEXT INCOMING

I’ve been playing Kilgore in SL the last few days, prolonging my playthrough (and guaranteeing his survival w/ a Rare Bat), trying to get a feel for him, his mechanics & playstyle, etc. These are my impressions, my questions, concerns, and in some cases possible suggestions thus far. Please bear in mind that my testing has been very much suboptimal, and as such there is very much in the way of specifics that I am unclear on.

Pardon, and please correct, any misunderstanding about him I may profess below.

RE: CHAINGUN BUTTONS
I like the idea of the gun buttons, but they feel like clunky Dhalsim-limbs, until overheated (herein referred to as “Heat”), when they feel more like clunky Dan fireballs. I like that you need resources to convert them, but even at max range (fullscreen!) they just feel weaker than they ought. Are they negative on hit? It’s fine that they are punishable point-blank, but even on hit, it just feels like the natural recovery is enormous before you can act again (and it always feels like the opponent can act first) - it creates this really unwieldy delay between multiple presses that is not at all like chainguns spinning up… I guess it’s in line w/ his whole malfunction motif though. Heat buttons don’t feel quite as bad, but that could be affected by the difference in intensity of the moves; the heat versions are more impactful, and thus that delay bears almost it’s own measure of implied slowness. Would it be too good to link jab off of Heat buttons in range (or is such a thing possible but I’m just mucking the timing?)

His j.HP I can understand being even (or just marginally +/- depending on spacing) on hit upon landing, so as not to step on Arby’s toes - Kilgore can’t have Arby’s j.HP when Arby has to spend a non-renewable resource on it, and that’s okay - but again, what of the possibility of linking a landing jab off of the Heated version (I imagine that would be a satisfactorily high amount of starting KV, to keep damage value from “jump-gun” combos in check)?

I dislike having to rely on cr.MP, L/M.DP & M/H.Barrage for AA’s, though I guess that is an alright AA suite. Would an AA gun button (roughly 45deg, perhaps slighter) make those precious meterless gun conversions too easy, or make getting in on him too difficult? If either, okay - I don’t like it, but I don’t have to. :wink:

I am completely enamored w/ his b.HP. It’s too bad that so much of his design seems to discourage it’s use.

RE: SPIN & EXHAUST MECHANICS
The purpose and benefits of spinning up to Heat are obvious, and numerous enough that the fullscreen-range upside of being cooled (herein referred to as “Base”) doesn’t seem like an upside at all, especially when considering the massive [-feeling] disadvantage touching your opponent with bullets puts you at. It’s almost as if you want to AVOID spinning up until you can safely open up the opponent elsewise, then you want to make sure that you don’t spin-down again - which might be impossible? It seems like sometimes Heat just ends in neutral for no apparent reason, with no gradual heat-loss or use of Exhaust - I assume it is intended to end after x-period of disuse, but it seems very abrupt and at times very shortly after using Heat mechanics, like juggling into st.HP and by the time they’re up Heat has run out. Might be a little buggy?

Speaking of Heat’s duration and the spin-up mechanic, it is unclear if there is intermediary levels of Heat as indicated by the graduation of “heat” animations on his arms, or is it actually a binary mechanic (on or off) with “almost there” animations for aesthetic value?

Y’know, come to think on it, what is the point of the Exhaust mechanic, anyway? I haven’t experimented at all w/ Exhaust Ender, but I’m really not understanding why you should ever want to use it. From what I can tell, the purposes of Base is to spin-up until Heated, and to have a fullscreen effective range. Heated trims the range a bit, but adds properties to his HP’s and most of his specials (including +PD to all gunfire). Is there something I’m missing? Any overlooked upsides or downsides or either mode? Because if not, I can’t fathom why you ever Exhaust except when making a hard-call on a juggle extension (for the kill or oki or whatever at the cost of all that spin) or hit-confirm, and these seem like they’d be REALLY iffy choices considering the possibility of cancelling into EX.Dash or EX.DP instead (and, again, why an Ender?).

I can’t make heads or tails of how Flip works, other than it allows you to neatly avoid all sorts of projectiles, even Omen’s Looper Rashas. Apart from projectile avoidance and Missile oki, I can’t tell what the move is good for (though the aforementioned reasons are plenty good validation of a move anyway). Does it hit overhead? Can it cross-up, or does it need a Missile assist to cross-up? Moreover, while Heated, what’s w/ the Flip explosion (apart from damage) - does it make Flip safe? Does it affect Heat levels at all?

SUGGESTIONS
Maybe retune spin so it affects more than just his chainguns, and allow for Exhaust to be a more compelling and dynamic mechanic, perhaps even apply some sort of downside to his Heated state, to encourage use of Exhaust systems? Additionally, perhaps expanded options for his gun buttons for greater Base effectiveness (it really really hurts to lose spin, from what I’ve seen).
I apologize if any suggestions below are already reality, as it is really difficult to test and take notes currently.

  • Increase “true damage” values of Base gun attacks relative to their Heat counterparts.
  • Allow Base gun buttons (aside from b.HP) to be held or rapid-cancelled for improved spin-up, confirmability, and a more ‘realistic’ aesthetic. This may require a re-evaluation of Base gun attack KV values.
  • Apply intermediary stage of Heat (think Base as lv.1, “heating up” as lv.2, and Heat as lv.3). This “Lv.2” should be a middleground in pretty much every aspect - damage (true v. PD ratio), frame [dis]advantage, range, hold/rapid-cancellability (essentially ‘rate-of-fire’), meter build, etc.
  • Remove “flame-trail” effect from all Base animations, such as dashing, jumping, etc. The “flame-trail” animation should apply only to Heat animations, and should simultaneously indicate a buff applied by Heat, and a passive Exhaust function, reducing the amount of Heat (not instantly disabling it though, unless below a certain threshold).
  • Reduce Heat walkspeeds (could add a sort of shudder to his animation for extra “breaking-down” flavor, but that’s just icing)
  • Increase Heat dash distances.
  • Increase Heat jump height & speed. Alternatively, allow Heat to perform superjumps w/ the classic [d,u] motion. Superjump cancels would be amazing (though should cost considerable heat, and be relatively limited in application).
  • EX.Flip should not cost Heat, as it is already spending a resource.

And… maybe a few more gun buttons? I know I’m getting a little pre-emptively “Kim-Wu treatment” here, but who doesn’t love the prospect of more angles to shoot miniguns at? I propose:

  • db.HP: Anti-air Chaingun (45ish degree)
  • (air)d.HP: Steeper angled air-to-ground
  • (air)f.HP: Slighter angled air-to-ground

CONCLUSION
I like the character, but he feels weak and lacking. Maybe I’m wrong, can’t really tell until he goes live. Spin-up and heat mechanics feel unfinished. I kinda hope there are some differences (especially w/ how spin/heat works) between the currently accessible version and the launch version.

Thoughts? Disagreements?

Things I am totally wrong about!?

3 Likes
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Have you tried cancelling missiles into gun normals?

Have you tried using exhaust on block to make moves safe and comtinue pressure?

Hows his meter gain?

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I didn’t know that was a thing (reverse-order cancellation). I’ll have to give it a shot (pardon the pun), but I would imagine on block best case is Missiles making gun safe, and on hit I guess there’s an high-KV but decently damaging, unbreakable starter that still needs meter to convert…?

I forgot to mention that above. I haven’t been able to adequately test the safety of various Exhaust cancels (AI isn’t nearly that cooperative), but I would assume you get safety w/ a lot of stuff thanks to Exhaust, and maybe even gain advantage - but continue pressure? From what I can tell (w/o access to frame data) pressure will largely involve Missiles, and so if I was going to spend a bar on Exhaust for pressure, wouldn’t it make more sense to spend it on EX.Missle for chip and guaranteed pressure that seems relatively difficult to SC? Cancelling into EX.Missile for safety and pressure doesn’t cost any heat, and that is the core of my issue with the Exhaust mechanic - why do I want to spend bar to LOSE heat when I can spend the same bar for the same reasons with more benefits and no downside? Is there a compelling reason to sacrifice heat?

Seemed alright. I always have a bar when I need it, anyway.

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Just based on data so far there’s 2 good reasons to Exhaust.

First is because a lot of his moves look really unsafe or just on the edge of it so exhaust cancelling gives you a chance to back out with chaingun sweep or jump back gun barrage. It keeps your opponent blocking as you rev your offense back up for another go.

Another reason is if the opponent gets away from you. His walk speed is quite bad and his dashes quite easy to punish if overheated. So echausting and using the screen freeze for the answer of your choice seems like a plan.

The idea behind him is to move back and forth not to simply build heat and go in. Building speed is actually rather easy as most of his specials and some normals do.

I’ll have more when I get home. Can’t wait to get my hands on him myself.

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Humm, thinking from a merely theoretical POV, I was quite convinced there’d be some sort of drawback to being heated up. Is there really nothing?

I’d think you’d either have a limit as to how much time you can spend heated until something happens (explosão of some sort or something, that would leave you vulnerable or something along those lines) or that some of his specials would become worse/more unsafe or unstable the more heated up you were.

If the heat up mechanic is 100% gains and no downside, then I don’t really understand how it’s supposed to work =S

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That’s sort of the issue I’m having - it seems like the only “downside” is the range reduction, but that’s hardly a downside. @BallisticSalsa mentions a walkspeed reduction which I really hope to be true, as I hadn’t actually noticed.

The problem is that the current Kilgore experience is pure SL, so there’s all sorts of wonky crap going on, and I can’t tell what’s SL-wonky and what’s Kilgore-wonky, y’know? So it’s really hard to tell what’s-what.

I do know that HK.Missile is amazing.

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His walk speed is bad regardless of heat status by the looks of it.

The thing that changes is bullet distance. So overheating mid barrage while keeping out thunder can be an issue exhaust helps solve. He does seem to have really good meter gain so the safety of exhaust can be handy. I honestly cant wait to see how i can use it mid combo/juggle to style on people.

Shadow missiles looks like a great button to throw on oki for mixup potential.

As for netal ball i wonder if it crushes low/mid moves like slides or if distance can make it crossup.