I need help with match ups I'm tired of being bad

Hey! Your father was a hamster and your mother smelt of elder berries! I’m almost positive your Hisako just swings a pool noodle around, as weak as your offense is.

I don’t respect you. Come at me, brah! :smirk:

Real talk: Beach day Hisako with pool noodle and creepy beach appearance would be awesome.


Every situation is different based on your opponent and your own characters strengths and weaknesses. As a Jago main here are my strategies as follows for some of the cast.

Jago: Neutral game is everything, anti-air jumps with DP’s; balanced as I will either be aggressive or defensive based on the player.

Orchid: Defensive, I usually let the opponent use heavy slide and catch them with a medium low to open them up. Also zone them to keep them at bay until they choose to force their way in, which I punish.

Fulgore: Neutral game is important, Fulgore is well-rounded so I tend to play defensive-neutral or aggressive. I don’t much zone because his zoning game beats Jago’s.

Aganos: Aggressive zoner. I tend to use Jago’s charged Endokuken now that it is capable of hitting. I also bait the shadow yolo-pawnch where i’ll use heavy standing to open up. It isn’t as difficult as it used to be for Jago.

Riptor: I don’t have enough experience in this matchup.

Hisako: Defensive, as a Jago you have to respect her or she will crush everything. I will throw a few endos just to see a reaction and act accordingly to the player’s strategy.

Omen: Aggressive, I don’t like him building meter and pacing the match so I try and dominate with Jago’s versatile moveset.

This most likely won’t help since its Jago but my point is to find what your main strengths and weaknesses are with the character; familiarize yourself with the characters that challenge you most and find your method. This will give you an idea of how to go about certain matchups. If you ever need to practice against a fair Jago send me a FR (oTiger Spirit).

Also, @GalacticGeek I have yet to get crushed by your Aganos, I am still looking for that opportunity.



Actually don’t know that I would recommend this. Playing hardcore defense is fine by Hisako - if the match is slow then she gets to pace it however she wishes, and that’s when she becomes dangerous. As you run into better Sako’s, letting them dictate the pace by turtling too much will get you killed.

As others are saying @Dism3mbermenT, it sounds like some of your problem might be not respecting the opponent’s options enough. You can’t react to a lot of the forward traveling specials in this game at certain ranges, so you just kind of have to be smart about your spacing and when you push buttons. Crouch blocking is generally the way you want to play defense, and if your opponent has a propensity to throw fast specials at you, then there’s a decent chance that proper blocking will net you a punishment.

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Working on it

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I wouldn’t say she has 1. He has her rekkas and that cartwheel normal.

Fair enough, I wouldn’t turtle the match though, I will act accordingly but be wary of what she throws and look for reads to get an opening. I suppose I play my defense a little annoying because it’s usually enough to force the player to make bad calls.

Yeah, but the cartwheel is the only one that’s going to hit you raw. The rekka overhead’s only going to come after you’ve already blocked two rekka hits, and those hits can be blocked low just fine.

Any orchids want to help out?

It’s not help, it’s torture ^^

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I too have been bodied by his aganos xD

I’ll fight you as Fulgore if you like, forum handle=GT

Simple tips for fighting against Aganos:

  1. He starts the match with 2 chunks to use for armor, walls, his peacemaker, and/or his payload assault. Chunks give him options! Whenever possible, don’t allow him to chunk-up (especially now that he can save his resources with his all-new recycling and more recycling mechanics in S3).

  2. Use fast, multi-hitting attacks or shadow moves to remove his chunk armor.

  3. Use grounded heavy normal attacks (such as s.HP/HK and c.HP/HK) and throws to ignore his chunk-armor (please note that these attacks do NOT remove the chunk armor) and set up combos. His chunk-armor doesn’t work in the air either, so don’t be afraid to hit him out of the air or juggle him, if possible. You’ll know when you’ve successfully used a grounded heavy normal to bypass armor due to a bright blue spark and unique sound effect that will appear/be heard upon hit

  4. Only 2 of Aganos’ attacks hit low - c.HK, a.k.a. the ground stomp (on the 2nd hit) and his c.HP with peacemaker, and only 2 of his (grounded) attacks hit as overhead - close MP and s.HP with peacemaker. This makes him incredibly easy to block. I suggest you block high normally and react to his ground stomp by quickly switching to a low block (you may need to practice this). Alternatively, you can always block low and simply watch for the close MP, s.HP with peacemaker, and the jump-in and neutral jumping attacks.

  5. His natural disaster and ruin special moves are some of the easiest moves in the game to punish on block - take advantage of it (I recommend using the aformentioned grounded heavy normal attacks or shadow moves, especially against the former, since both options offer long-range attacks against the golem as he bounces off of your block, as well as a way to ignore or remove chunks, respectively).

  6. His shadow pulverize is easily shadow counterable on block just about anywhere during the move, but don’t do it if he has chunk-armor, as that will give him the advantage.

  7. You can shadow counter his peacemaker chain combos on block.

  8. Aganos’ walls can take any combination of 3 “hits” from wall-bounces, ground-bounces, or by knocking Aganos down. The 1st only does damage to the wall it hits, while the latter 2 will do damage to ALL walls that are still standing. Try to incorporate these into a single combo setup, such as doing a wall-bounce ender into a throw (which causes Aganos to hit the wall and then the ground) for quick wall destruction.

  9. Do not jump so readily when he has walls up, as it can make it easier for him to wall-crash you for massive damage.

  10. Be ready to tech throws whenever Aganos is anywhere up close, as it’s easier for him to do than other characters AND allows him time to chunk up.

  11. If Aganos performs shadow payload assault, either interrupt it before he slams into the ground, throw him before the falling rocks hit to reduce damage, or simply block it to reduce most of the damage (you’ll still take chip-damage).

  12. Aganos can “jump” out of his natural disaster, which can be used as an anti-air or a cross-up.

  13. If you jump over his natural disaster, he can reverse the direction of his “jump” so be ready to block the potential crossup (reverse your block).

  14. Be ready to block on wakeup, flip-outs, or combo-breakers to combo-punish any ruins and/or shadow ruins he might throw out, especially if walls are present.

  15. Don’t use projectiles frequently against Aganos as he can shadow ruin or armor through them, as well as finger-flick them away into nothing.

  16. Don’t use ANY projectiles while he’s holding a peacemaker, as he can easily throw it to destroy virtually all of them, stagger you, and open you up with a heavy natural disaster for a full-combo punish.

  17. Reverse block if he jumps over you and attempts to use j.MK (his best ambiguous crossup move).

  18. His marching stomp (f+HK) is easily shadow-counterable on block (but gets harder when he has more chunks).

  19. Aganos moves slower in every respect with the more chunks he has stored. Take advantage of the grounded heavy normal attacks mentioned earlier that ignore said chunk-armor, since they’ll be more likely to hit with his slower speed.

  20. His pulverize and shadow pulverize can hit behind him, but only hits high there, so if you perform a successful crossup and he whiffs your jump-in, duck to avoid the back hits (and maybe block as well if your character has a large hitbox), then punish.

  21. His shadow pulverize is throw-invulnerable until it hits, so be wary of throwing him on wakeup if he has shadow meter.

  22. Aganos can “hold” his shadow natural disaster for a short time to catch jump-ins, so be wary of jumping if he has shadow meter, since it also recaptures you on (most) successful hits. Also, during this “hold” the move is projectile invulnerable.

  23. His shadow ruin is invincible during start-up frames, is projectile invulnerable, and has infinite armor until it hits. This leaves you with very few options when it occurs - you can block it, throw him out of it during startup, or even jump over it in some cases (although that’s incredibly risky).

  24. Both his close s.HK and c.HK (ground stomp) are shadow-counterable on block, but the former is only shadow-counterable on the 1st hit, since the 2nd hit knocks you back, while the latter is only shadow-counterable when up close (since the 2nd hit is a minor earthquake from a distance).

  25. Some Aganos players like to use his c.HP to cancel into ruin for an easy wall-crash. If they do this often, you can shadow counter punish the attack on block to counter the ruin. However, if they don’t perform the cancel into ruin, you can whiff, so be careful.

  26. Some Aganos players like to use his light payload assault to force their opponent to jump in order to “catch” them. Simply block low to avoid this. If they attempt to follow up with a natural disaster jump in the hopes to cross-up, simply block appropriately to whatever may hit you 1st, and then quickly adjust your block accordingly, then punish.

  27. Some Aganos players like to use multiple pokes, such as with s.LP/LK or c.LP/LK to knock you back, even on block, and position you where they want you for best effect (such as to throw you). You can shadow counter this strategy on block.

  28. His payload assault (all versions) destroy (most) projectiles.

  29. His c.HK ground stomp can destroy low projectiles in some situations.

  30. Many Aganos players like to use a natural disaster or pulverize linker immediately after a successful natural disaster or pulverize opener, respectively, for easy lockouts against players who are hoping to combo-break an AD or manual after the opener. If they do this often, pay attention to what strengths they use for patterns/habits to break appropriately in the future (but also be aware that they can still counter-break you).

  31. His far s.HP hits high and can be low-profiled by most characters simply by crouching (some larger characters may still have to block).

Well, there you go - 30+ incredibly useful tips to fighting the golem. I’ll add more to this list as I think of them. :wink:

If it wasn’t already obvious, blocking, grounded heavy normals, and shadow counters are your best friends in this matchup. :stuck_out_tongue:

Feel free to quote this post wherever needed. :slight_smile:


GG GG, GG. :thumbsup:

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I was actually just trying to problem-solve this one last night during a long set (Mira v. Orchid). Orchids M/HK Slides are punishable on block, but the pushback can make it not so easy. Also, at -7/-10, Mira’s MPs are too slow to punish MSlide with, and her LPs are too short for the pushback so will whiff. This leaves cr.LKxx, which I didn’t test but might work. Otherwise, she gives you plenty of time to try and setup with her tricky mobility, or go on the offense with your own cr.MPxHKSlide pressure. You might be able to punish it directly but if you block it it becomes your turn. Just be a little quick on it, there’s deceptively little blockstun.

Her Slide is stupid good, at least it feels such against Mira. Obviously this makes neutral Bats a no-go against Orchid.

So, vs. Orchid Slide:
block>cr.LKxx (punish??)
block>cr.MPxx (pressure/mixup)
block>Mist mixup
Mist evade>setup

I love this community. Look at all the people willing to offer help.

It’s a very broad request, so it probably makes sense to focus on things one at a time. Looks like Orchid and her slide are your nemesis. I don’t know any regulars who are Orchid mains but if what you really want to practice is understanding her slide I’m sure most people have a basic Orchid that is up to the task. She isn’t super tricky to play until you start to get into really high level stuff.

As @CStyles45 said, it’s not clear what you are trying to do but failing, but to counter Orchid you really should just block low whenever you aren’t specifically doing anything else. If you are getting hit because you always press buttons then you should stop pressing buttons. Very few moves beat her slide in a trade, so it’s one of the many things that you want to block then counter. Maybe you could post a video of a match so people can better see what you need help with.


Mind if I take this and put it into the KICG?

Simple tips: “read that 500 lines comment. Easy, you are done” :smiley:

I mean it does give useful information on some of the things Aganos does and what to watch out for. It’s about the same concept as watching another player and keeping a notebook of their habits and tendencies as I used to do back in the day.

It was a joke dude :slight_smile:

You know, the same that you tried to make to me?
Except… I added a smiley, to make it obvious :slight_smile: