I need help with defense against button spammers

I recommend learning meaty* timings. A surprising number of people can be beaten simply by meatying them consistently on their wakeup, because they simply refuse to stop pressing buttons. Jago’s close MK is a fantastic button for this. Just stick it out as they’re standing up and profit. :+1:

An attack that is “meaty” is an attack that is out (active) on an opponent as they are standing up. Because all moves have startup and most don’t have invincibility, a meaty attack will hit them before their counter button or special actually comes out. Meaty attacks will beat any action on wakeup that isn’t an invincible reversal.

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@STORM179 I imagine precise timing is involved with doing a MK on wakeup? Or will it hit if you do it just as they start standing up?

You do need some time for meaties, but yeah, generally you just stick a normal out there while they are standing up. Like @STORM179 said though, Jago’s MK is really good as it is hella active, thus it is easy to use as a meaty.

@UncappedWheel82 What’s a good resource for learning what moves are active, frame data etc.?

KI’s practice mode actually has all the frame data you need, just turn on “Attack Data” in the options. In the frame display of #/#/#, the middle number is the number that tells you how active a move is. When talking about meaties, the higher that number is, the better.

In terms of practicing it, I’d say just go into practice and repeatedly knock the dummy down, and then hit it as it’s getting up. If you want to test a particular setup you can record the dummy doing the setup to you, and then see if you get hit when you try to beat it with mash jab or throw.

The timing isn’t super strict for good meaty buttons, but it does take some practice.


What this guy said

@STORM179 I haven’t spent a lot of time in training mode yet, so I’ll have to check that out and see what I can figure out. Thanks.

No problem :smile::+1:

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If you’re just starting out in training mode, you may want to turn hitboxes on along with hit data. This will allow you to visually check how much room you have to work with your go to moves as well as what you need to be wary of from the jabs and pokes.

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Keep your distance and you should be good against mashers. On knock down,as they said do meaties.

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@Sasuke99I I was doing ok tonight against some mashers. If wake ups weren’t working, neutral jump HP or HP cross ups were the next best thing. My W-L is split even so I have some work to do.

One thing to keep in mind:

“Win with your sword still sheathed”

I cannot stress enough how important this is when fighting sloppy opponents.

KI is a mental game, where you must make good reads.

The issue:
you cannot read the mind of someone who is not thinking.

The solution:
they’re not thinking, so you can let them fight themselves.

Here’s an example of me fighting an opponent who is beating his controller like it owes him money:


Notice that instead of going into a combo often. I keep doing CR.LK and Overpower, keeping him in hit stun. When I DO start a combo, at one point I actually purposely drop it for a “reset”.

My opponent wasn’t thinking, he was just mashing buttons. Opening up for a combo meant there was a 33 percent chance of him getting a lucky break, so why should I bother going into a full combo when I can just let him try to mash and get “counter hit” to death?

After a throw break resets the neutral, I don’t advance on him- but wait, knowing he will jump ( he was obviously using analogue stick instead of dpad). Why risk running/ jumping at my opponent and getting into a “jousting match” when instead I can just sit back and wait for him to throw his face into my claws?

Don’t fight against sloppy opponents the same way you fight against focused opponents. If you can, always prefer to let the opponent hang themselves. Fighting against mashers goes from being irritating to hilarious.


Also: against bonified mashers, always go for opener->linker - if they are mashing, they will get a guaranteed timing lockout and you can proceed to go nuts on them.

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