Discuss bastfree’s tutorial on how to punish Cinder’s Trailblazer crash cancel into Shadow Inferno shown here
Goddammit… Why did you post this here?
Watch the language please.
To help those looking for info on how to fight against Cinder.
Want to stress that the timing to input this move is NOT during the shadow inferno super freeze, because you are still stuck in block stun during that. It’s this really random timing window floating somewhere after the freeze, and you have only 1 frame, so you must get reversal timing. The timing is surprisingly difficult for every special move that is not a 3P/3K input (so it’s easy to get Liquidize/Shadow Form/Sandsplosion, but it is NOT easy to get other special move reversals here; I suspect it’s a glitch with the reversal window or something).
You should set up the training dummy to do the Cinder string and then see for yourself the timing. It’s definitely something you will not get reliably in a real match unless you practice it, even though it looks easy in the video.
If you play on stick, double-tapping the special move can give you three shots at your reversal (the initial press, the negative edge, the second press), so I recommend trying that. If you piano your fingers across all 3 punch or kick buttons, two things could happen: you’ll get a few shots as a shadow reversal (which is important for a lot of characters), or you’ll get as many as 6 shots at your meterless reversal, if you have one that is first-frame projectile invincible (3 presses, 3 negative edges, potentially on 6 consecutive frames).
The hardest punish in the video, for sure, is the TJ roll punish. I think it’s a tough reversal followed by 2 consecutive 1-frame links, since you don’t get a reversal window after completing the first roll (I don’t think?) and TJ needs to keep turning himself invincible immediately. It looks really cool though.
Yeah the timing is awkward but just think of the timing as though you were trying to combo break the first hit and I get it out pretty consistently now.
Nice. I’ll definitely keep this in mind next time I run into a Cinder. Thanks.
Very good video. I’d like to point out that Hisako’s best option against this though is simply to never allow Cinder to trailblazer in on her. Counter stuffs anything he can try to hit you with out of it so long as you have the timing down.
Key things to look out for are fired up trailblazers (he uses the third dash to go up and make you whiff counter, then come down with a button while you recover) and other shenanigans designed to slightly alter when he actually hits you with a button. Coming in empty is also a possibility. Cinder has options to make it harder for Hisako to counter his trailblazers, but all in all you shouldn’t be getting hit by very many of his aerial approach options.
But yeah, if he does manage to make you block one and then tries to shadow inferno you, shadow ORZ away
Time to change it up
Bastfree is now a tag
LOL Cinders will fall under the might of my Jago/TJ Combo…
I’ve already trying to master the TJ Rolling way. I can get it 2/3 times. Imagine doing that in a match, on Danger & no Instinct, and Cinder is like," I’ll just throw it out. He can’t block it!"
LOL THE SALT
Here’s a crazy idea, how about making Cinder a character that doesn’t require 1 frame shadow meter punishes to even get a scratch on him…
He could use a few extra frames of recovery sprinkled throughout his moveset in my opinion.
He has good recovery because you’re meant to interrupt him as opposed to punish him. Just look at all the gaps in his strings and super low priority of his trailblazers. If they gave him more recovery then those things would have to get buffed into true block strings with better priority.
Trailblazer is among the most unsafe moves in the game. If you block trailblazer of any type at any time, mash jab beats every possible followup. It feels hard to punish because it’s fast, but it’s a really hard move to use properly because there’s just no safety in it at all.
Shadow fission and shadow inferno are pretty good, yes, but he has to somehow get close to you (probably with trailblazer) without getting hit.
Until this latest patch where they improved heavy fission and regular inferno, I think Cinder was the most UNsafe character in the game on offense.
You can’t possibly think this.
I’m sure I could think of AT LEAST two moves per character that are wayy more unsafe than any strength of trailblazer.
Even after reading what you just said I’ve gone into the lab to test it, and yes, jab beats it out, but only at one slim frame with strict timing.
Do most unsafe moves require strict jab timing to punish? Definitely not.
Timing isn’t strict, just mash it as soon as you see you blocked a trailblazer.
Ok well still I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s among the most unsafe in the game
What move is universally more unsafe? There is literally no version of Trailblazer that isn’t a massive risk to use.
The only reason it feels like not much of a risk is because its followups are fast, so you need pretty good reactions. But if you have them, Cinder can quite literally never use this move in a direct approach. He has to try flying above your head and ground crash it, which puts him at -3 and is shadow counterable.
Go to the lab and record Cinder doing grounded MK trailblazer in your face. Then mash jab and try to beat it with anything. All followups in all directions lose, and it’s also something like -12 on block without a followup. Even if you don’t manage to hit the followup directly because you were caught off guard, if he does the up-forward one, you can hit him for free between trailblazer and his air normal, and if he does the ground crash one, you either shadow counter it or his pressure is over because he’s -3.
I’ll definitely admit the move is fast so punish opportunities will slip you by, but if you just train yourself to mash jab the instant you see any trailblazer fire of any kind, Cinder will have a really hard time. A good way to train is to go play against some random Cinder shadows online. Odds are they’ll be doing lots of trailblazers, and you get to experiment without any repercussions for losing.
I think what makes more sense is to say that as his main option for approach, it’s among the most unsafe. While other characters have approach options that are safer. Surely you don’t think dps, tailflips, and over heads are harder to punish.
Anyways I really appreciate the information :p. I don’t feel so salty about heavy pyro bomb spammers anymore.
You could just, ya know…hit him while he is in midflight? the thing can get stuffed by almost everything.