You can break virtually everything in KI, not just ADs and manuals - the only real exemption are single attacks in neutral and openers. You can break linkers, juggles, flip-out attacks, shadow moves, d.HK hard knockdowns, combos with no break point including and after the 3rd hit, and even combo enders if an opener-ender is performed. Not to mention throws can be teched or avoided altogether by back-dashing or neutral jumping. Heck even the combo-breakers can be countered via counter-breakers! 
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Maybe he expects us to act like the SF community. 
I kid, I kid!
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Thats assuming you always have meter when punishing which is not the case. Thats why i ranged punishes from x% to x%.
No matter how much you say 33% it can be matches where the ratio is 100%.
Yes counter breaker is the solution to breaking thats why we see them often in high level tournaments.
Breakers are not limited if you guess or even react right. There is no reason to not play more yolo when i get a second chance. And just because of the breaker system players tend to play more yolo (if the characters allow it).
You will disagree but i know a lot of players that play KI and feel the same.
On this forum everyone says the game is near perfect or has a solution to everything and in their mind its the most balanced fighter out there and and andâŠ
I love playing KI but in other fight games i care if i win or lose - in KI i dont care.
Sorry OP, I like @Fnrslvrâs approach to responding. You came, complained that the game rewards YOLO play and then donât care to justify it? What did you hope to achieve here then? If you read the entire thread, by the time you get to this post I hope youâre in practice mode learning how to block and use Shadow Counters instead of bringing an argument that if you just search for, has been negated way before you decided to post about it. And this is coming from a player who is more YOLO than thoughtful setups because Iâm trying to get the achievements for all characters. Iâve bodied people with random craziness, Iâve been bodied by random craziness, Iâve punished random craziness and Iâve been pubished for using random crazinees. Its how this game works, and if you keep comparing it to SFâs âstandardâ of how FGs should be, it will look YOLO for sure.
Ask for a few sets with some people here, everyoneâs willing to play the game, even more so if someone needs help.
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I do not think KI is YOLO much at all, people that play that way often gets defeated if playing against someone who knows what there doing 90% of the time. If a YOLO Jago player is just wind kicking from a mile away neutral jump and punish. A YOLO player often abuses DPâs so bait and punish. Yolo players often do the same ADâs as well making it extremely easy to break there combos. Yolo players are the easiest to beat imo cause there just throwing â â â â out there. You are a beginner so your dealing with a lot of spammy and annoying tactics believe me i know cause i climbed from bronze to gold in a few hours and bronze fights were the least enjoyable fights out of em all. Find someone on the forums to play with that can teach you a thing or 2 about your character and KI in general. Just give it time and you will be fine.
Yolo â Does not know what he is doing
You are beating bad players. Yolo isnt tied to any skill level
To me every
Teleport - Dp
Dash through Eclipse
Puddle Punch after a blocked cold shoulder
DP after blocked windkick
Every Shago non surged divekick
Every Rash raw wrecking ball
Every Fullscreen orchid slide
And so on⊠is yolo to me. Some call them gimmicks though.
The word youâre looking for is âriskâ.
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No i use yolo in these cases cause in KI characters can make these yolo situations safe - due to shadow moves or certain instinct mechanics or instinct cancels
But Risk is of course tied to yolo stuff
I try to play a solid ground game with you but realize that this does not work and the switch to gimmicks cause the other stuff does not work - that is a yolo playstyle. All or nothing - in a fight game this stuff will always be controversial - as a example a named fulgore player stated himself that he switched to gimmicks cause the solid game did not worked for him but the gimmick style worked - it was in a grand final of some tournament
But that is just my opinion so im out of this discussion.
Happy playing everyone
âGimmicksâ, fine, but donât use âyoloâ. Itâs a dumb not-even-a-word whose âmeaningâ most often contradicts its use in these circumstances. âYou only live onceâ, but all of the situations you described are cases where you are clearly living twice (since making them safe is apparently what makes them âyoloâ). Itâs also going to come off as an insult most of the time that you use it.
Even just examining making a DP safe: Earlier you said that you donât always have the meter to get that optimal 19-20% punish. Well then, why donât you have that meter? It could be because youâre choosing to spend it on making your DPs safe. Thatâs the risk of doing these âyoloâ maneuvers. Youâre spending resources to reduce the short term risk of getting your reversal punished, at the cost of solid guaranteed damage in the long term, not to mention the added benefits of having meter in the neutral game.
Using the word âyoloâ just dumbs down that whole dynamic of resource management into a word that doesnât mean anything.
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I think itâd be nice to be able to turn on breaker colors in training mode and perhaps survival. The more you see it, the more your brain recognizes the animations. I think that could be a great training tool simply by virtue of the fact that it takes something that can be relatively intimidating and turns it in to a learning experience.
That said, thereâs no way this could be useable in multiplayer or any online mode for that matter. Itâd make combo breaking far too easy, which seems like an odd request from a SF fan. The ones Iâve seen tend to want an unfettered reward for opening up an opponent and feel breakers âcheatâ them out of that reward. Thatâs not a knock on SF players, itâs just more of what they seem to be used to.
Either way, welcome to the forum, man! Always nice to have more perspectives.
Its a common word in fighting games.
If you think its dumb than this is your opinion. I like the word to describe a certain playstyle.
So stop telling me what i should use and not use.
To the other point - mmmh maybe due to shadow counters, shadow reversal, projectile invul move and so on.
Regardless of 10 or 20% guaranteed damage - it is not possible to compare yolo play in SFV to yolo play in KI.
All fighters have gimmicks.
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Isnât SFV technically more Yolo? You whiff a DP in SFV,you get more damage? Doesnât it seem more Yolo? In KI,you take less. SFV seems way more Yolo doesnât it. Yolo means you only live once.
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I will be honest. I wanted to stopped there : âHow to make it better (From a Street Fighter playerâs perspective)â
Let me tell you one thing : Why should we care about a âStreet Fighter perspectiveâ? Particularly when those Street Fighter players have absolutely no perspective at all on KI and think they can tell what is good or bad in the game.
We donât play Street Fighter here we play KI (even if lots of us play Street Fighter), if the devâ need a perspective, they will probably get it from KI players.
Because KI and Street Fighter are 2 DIFFERENT games, and other FG donât need to be Street Fighter alike to exist, or that Street Fighter should be the absolute reference.
Should KI players complain about Street Fighter being different from KI? No. They adapt just like any player has to adapt to a new FG.
What if KI players went on SF forums saying âHow to make it better (From a KI playerâs perspective)â? Would SF players think it would be a relevant point of view? I donât think so.
This is not a good way to do it. First learn the game with GOOD players and your point of view will undoubtedly change about it.
Donât get me wrong, lots of KI players here play SF, including me. It is a great game.
So, sorry if Iâm not a little bit more constructive here, but for me, that kind of topics are even more obnoxious than a double Ultraaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Welcome to KI 
Our community is by and large peopled by players who are very new to fighting games - whatever other hate you might get, itâs unlikely â09âerâ or â16âerâ will be the epithets used to attack you. I appreciate you taking the time to write your post, and for actually including suggestions, even if I disagree with them.
Iâll just take your points as I see them:
I agree. That is why no one does this. Standard learning for breakers tends to just start out by recognizing one variety of strength (usually heavies) and then expanding from there. Most doubles have roughly the same âfeelâ across the cast, so there is very little need to spend time trying to memorize 100+ unique AD animations.
Breaking actually is pretty hard. At the beginner level though, where youâll typically be matched against other beginners and some intermediate players, pretty much everyone is bad at breaking. For this reason, it tends to come out as a wash.
This is one of those moments where Iâm really glad that I own and put time into SFV. A year ago I might have nodded my head meekly at this characterization, accepting that yeah, us KI players just didnât have any defense or fundamentals. But I do own SFV, and have made it into Gold in its Ranked mode. And you just described a large segment of the SFV population. In that game the preferred wakeup is mash jab, but the point stands. Iâve crush countered Gold players in SFV 3 and 4 times in a row, and had them wake up with another bloody jab straightaway. I have played opponents who spent an entire round dying to literally nothing but jump back air-to-airâs, and Iâve played opponents who couldnât AA me to save their lives.
You want to talk about a game rewarding unsafe crap? SFV does it just fine - unless you think a 60 dmg anti-air vs potential 350 dmg jump-in (because I have to AA with a normal since I donât have a DP) is somehow a standard of an âhonestâ game. That tradeoff is crazily in the offenseâs favor, which is precisely why you see so much jumping even and particularly at high level in SFV. The lack of defense youâre describing has far more to do with beginners at FGâs being beginners at FGâs than some anomalous reward situation unique to KI. At least in this game waking up with random buttons tends to slow down at high level.
As you get more familiar with the game, youâll find those guys are generally pretty terrible. Continually fishing with long range specials is not a long-term viable strategy, and will be punished accordingly in intermediate play and above.
Now on to your specific suggestions:
This would doubtless make the breaker game far easier on the defender, which is kind of the opposite of what most players generally claim to want. Anything above beginner level play would have an insane number of combo breakers. Youâre new to KI, so I can understand why this idea might sound appealing, but trust me - you are already quite incentivized to learn manuals and mix up combos at higher level play.
It doesnât make people mix it up though - it just means youâll see the same move flying across the screen maybe a few more times a match. People donât wind kick their way across the temple of dawn because it does massive damage - they do it because it is the only intro to the combo system they can think of. Reducing damage on it doesnât change that, particularly not at beginner-level play. And for the record, if a character is truly clearing nearly the whole â â â â screen with his special move, then it is probably unsafe on block. On your end, youâll need to start respecting that in KI, your character tends to not be safe at mid-screen, and adjust your defense accordingly.
Iâd be all for that - I tend to agree that continually having to watch double and triple ultras is very likely to put off a beginner from the game, which is a shame. Iâd love it if the devs could somehow give the defender an option to let the loser leave and get on with his life, while the winner gets to continue his pummeling of his opponentâs defeated corpse. Budget and time contstraints being what they are, however, I think itâs unlikely weâll get to see something like this. 
No yelling involved. Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts on this in a constructive manner, and I genuinely do hope you stick around. 
KI is an incredibly deep and rich game, particularly at high level, and Iâd like more players from other games to stick with it and find that out for themselves.
To the rest of the thread, I know weâve seen this complaint a bunch of times, but Iâd suggest just a touch less circling of the wagons if possible. The man is trying out our game and came in with actual, concrete suggestions for what he thinks it needs. That is a hell of a lot more than many in our own community can muster, and I think that deserves a level of respect in our responses. âGo play SF you elitistâ isnât constructive, even if the underlying arguments are largely true.
My $.02.
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Sure, there are a few times you donât have bar. We could add that to the calculation if you like (but then weâd have to figure out roughly how often you have bar, which makes it messier and I wanted to keep the calculation simple), but players have bar in KI a lot, and often donât use it on punishes, so I preferred to focus on the situation with bar to show that the numbers can be quite similar if players play better in these situations.
EDIT - LeoFerreis made a good post about this above, as well. Punishing DPs with great damage tends to mean you are doing fewer safe DPs yourself, ie, playing solid. This particular decision making doesnât turn up too often in SFV, because your punish is either âpretty goodâ if you donât have meter, âpreeeeetty goodâ if you have 1 bar, and âreally goodâ if you have super, and you tend to use your meter in SFV for relatively cut-and-dry situations compared to KIâs meter use.
Eh, I donât disagree that KI play can be riskier. I do disagree that certain types of risky KI play canât be punished for huge damage over the course of 100 matches, and I do disagree that SF players donât get away with lots of risky play. But yes, KI play in general is riskier and thatâs part of its charm. If your particular playstyle doesnât like that riskiness then maybe you will enjoy KI less.
Really? I think KI is a fighting game. Which means⊠it has flaws, bugs, some poor design decisions, and a lot of BS. Iâm on these forums a lot and I donât hear âperfectâ thrown around too often about it.
I just find its particular style of risk/reward assessment interesting and not automatically invalid/worse because itâs different. Nor do I find SFVâs gameplay particularly flawless, free from necessary and difficult-to-punish risk, and above criticism. Thatâs pretty much all I wanted to say about these games. People are free to like one over the other, especially if you think one is more stable/brings you more enjoyment.
Since there will never be a perfect fighting game, Iâm just looking for an interesting one.
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if street fighter v is more yolo to you than you are free to think that cause you are free to think and say what you want.
And in the end every post is just an opinion.
This isnât an argument. Itâs a fallacy - even if itâs true. âI know a lot of people who think wrong thingsâ doesnât make wrong things right.
You keep getting offended by people telling you what words to use and then you say stuff like:
You actually can compare these, and they are pretty â â â â similar. @Infilament has given you plenty of reasoned analysis as to why and how and your response is ânuh uh. Cause reasons and a lot of people agree with me so you must be wrong.â Thatâs pretty weak. As are all the deflections about how everyone in here just thinks KI is perfect. I guess the thousands of pages of arguments just live in our imagination.
The reason you shouldnât use ambiguous language like âYOLOâ is because people define it to be convenient to whatever argument they are making and thatâs what you are doing. For you YOLO = anything you can do in KI that wouldnât work in SF. Thatâs just silly. KI has a two decision structure. Thatâs what makes it an interesting game. If a player is doing unsafe moves based on his confidence in his ability to recover with excellent play in the combo game thatâs not YOLO. Thatâs playing to his strengths. And of course (OF COURSE) you arenât going to win a major KI tournament playing SF. This isnât street fighter. Thatâs like saying you tried to win the World Cup with good pitching. If you play Fulgore like Ryu youâre playing the wrong game.
The most common YOLO thing I see in KI is guess breaking - and the people who do it get crushed. What you call âgimmicksâ is just good play. YOLO is doing random â â â â â â â stuff that shouldnât work but might work because your opponent would never expect you to do something so disastrous and it random luck sometimes happens.
The myth is that there is no randomness in SF because it is a pure contest between two players. This is nonsense, otherwise no one would ever have a runback and all tournaments would be single elimination best of one matches. SF is a different game.
If KI were YOLO then we wouldnât see the same players consistently performing well in tournaments. It would be a random set of people, randomly making it to top 8 for each tourney because YOLO. But if you insist that no matter what the SF way is the right way and any deviation from that is bad, wrong, random and unjustifiable, then of course there is no way to compare. SF will always be a better example of a SF game than KI.
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Actually, I want to taboo the word âskillâ and see how @LycanNaryko fills that void. I would substitute something like âbehaviours which maximize oneâs likelihood of winning a match,â but I feel like Lycan has something different in mind when he talks about skill.
(Thereâs a lot of other stuff I want to get around to commenting on here, but in case it never happens, I should at least get this bit out.)
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To defend Lycan a bit here, while I find fault with some of his premises, I think he just prefers the SF style of play; itâs more grounded (KI, especially in S2 and 3, is more airborne) and more focused on straight up whiff punishing. He has mentioned playing CvS2 in the past, so to me it just seems like this is his style of game, and he tends to admit as much in his posts. And the combo breaker game does add variance, just like any âdouble or nothingâ decision does.
I think itâs quite easy to argue that KI is a stable game, especially if the sample size is over 20 matches⊠but there will be times when someone hits a hot streak of breaking and your average damage over your last 5 blocked DP punishes will be near the very minimum. If you arenât playing for the long haul, but rather the short haul (like, say⊠in a tournament set), I can understand why this might be frustrating. In SF, you get exactly the same damage every time. There is no variance here, apart from dropped combos, so it is easy to be consistent. You can say âif he DPs here, I got himâ instead of âif he DPs here, I got him 66% of the timeâ. The pro-KI side to that is there will be some (many!) times when you can kill someone for one mistake that you wouldnât be able to do in a SF game. (And, of course, even in KI there are times when âif he DPs here, I got him 100% of the timeâ applies)
He made a comment that he likes playing KI but would never enter a tournament for it⊠obviously, that is his decision and totally fine. I do think heâs a smart guy and should rethink his stance on KI being so yolo that beating good players is just who hit the most random midscreen special moves, though. If the top MvC3 players can make that game stable and apply variance-based decision making, then KI, a game that is more stable and allows more decisions by the players, should have no trouble. Like⊠is Jagoâs medium wind kick that much worse than, say, Ryuâs 15f SFV dash? Wind kick is better because it crushes lows and stuff (so use a standing medium instead to check it), but to me the comparison is not so out of this world. A Ryu player can do âyolo dashesâ at midscreen and play super aggressive and do quite well in SFV, forcing the opponent player to pre-emptively check him with low pokes. People just call this footsies and spacing in SFV.
To be fair, I donât think even the most extreme SF fanboy would ever make a claim like this. All fighting games by their nature have a dozen moments per match, minimum, that have some element of randomness/variance to them. SFV has archetypes like Mika who are designed to make you guess or die once theyâre in an effective range. Mika is bemoaned by many SF players, but she exists and wins tournaments, so sheâs part of the SF discussion. Plus, any time you are in the corner, the only way you get out is by making a series of correct guesses.
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