so if I’m on the ground and my opponent keeps blocking low what should i do? there’s no grounded overhead. it seems like jumping up and attacking is too slow.
There is this thing called throw. I heard it works really well on blocking opponents. Also his shadow form can work as a quick overhead.
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i should have elaborated. I usually play with spinal, and when playing as omen it seemed my throws were missing when the opponent was blocking low. I came to the wrong conclusion that cant throw a blocking low opponent. I just tested it in practice mode, and it throws just fine. so I guess for some reason either my timing is off as omen or my spacing. probably just can’t get close enough. having to use shadow meter in that situation seems kinda crappy. with spinal I just do overhead sword or thow and it just works.
In general, throws beat blocking opponents. If your throw didn’t connect, there are a few reasons for it, but you were either out of range or your opponent was still in block stun from a previous attack (you can’t throw someone who is in block stun, you have to wait a liiiitle bit longer after your attack to try throwing them).
In order to stop someone from throwing you, you have to “do something risky” (ie, something that stops you from blocking, like pressing a button or jumping). This is the whole crux of fighting games.
Some characters have excellent overheads (from the ground; you’re right that doing a jumping attack is too slow) that make blocking even scarier, but even without such an overhead, you have enough material to convince someone that you can’t block forever. If they are pressing buttons to try and stop your throw attempts, then he is actually not really blocking.
Also don’t forget that in KI, you build meter really fast if your opponent blocks. So actually I’m okay with my opponent blocking sometimes, because I just get a ton of meter for it.
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Nothing wrong with using meter as omen to open up opponents. He can build it right back in the combo you opened him up with anway.
Yeah, throwing (with a few frames of walking forward if the pushback of your previous move put them out of range – lab it up!) and spending some bar for shadow form seems like the appropriate answer. Omen can sit on three stocks of meter, and comes about more meter pretty easily, and I’m not sure that other things I might blow that meter on (wakeup? fireball assists? lockout damage?) really buy Omen much more than a shadow form mixup can.
You may get your overheads for free with Spinal, but Omen’s got other things going for him that Spinal doesn’t – and if you don’t really think that’s the case, then you’re probably better off not using Omen, I’m afraid.
Doesn’t Omen have the heavy version of Wulf’s Ragged Edge? I thought that was an overhead attack for him?
He has a command normal (fwd+HP) that looks like Ragged Edge but it’s not an overhead. Omen has no grounded overheads.
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As an Omen player, most of my openings come from doing things that LOOK punishable, but arent.
If an opponent is blocking, i can do light slide, then a light jab on the other side. doing this can ONLY be interrupted with a PERFECTLY timed light jab or DP, but since most players dont know this, they will hit a different button, like Medium Kick, and i will get a counter-hit and a full combo.
If they catch on to that, i will do his forward-heavy-punch command normal into heavy rashakukens. If they block all of the hits, 1 of two things will happen:
- All 3 of the fireballs are blocked, and i become safe to keep putting on more pressure.
- One of the fireballs will be the “crawler”, which does not hit the opponent immediately. It will create a small window of time where the opponent can do a light kick and hit me. But once they try to confirm into a special move, the fireball hits them, which gives me either a full combo, or at least makes me safe again.
While im doing these, i will also be doing air dash into medium punch into throw, which will cause a perfect “tick throw” if i time it right. After doing this about twice, they will be pushed into the corner, where my next throw will be an opener into a full combo. If they catch on to this and try to tech my throws, i will then do air dash into medium punch into forward jump (which will cause their throw to whiff) into back-air-dash, into full combo.
Hope this helped.
Also, there is a pro player named Arganrost who has mastered the art of forward jump into back air dash into low kick. it is probably the HARDEST thing to do correctly, but if you are a BAMF and can get it down, you will be able to do overheads-to-lows in your block strings at ANY time you want.
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Ahh ok, thanks for the info
Omen’s mixup heavy as far as I’ve played him (not much at all). Air-dashing at the right spaces gives you a lot of crossup/fake crossup options. Combine that with Shadow Rashakukens or even regular Rashakukens and it gets tricky up to mid-level play. Of course if they’re just blocking low, I find it easier to back off a little and let them try to attack me, then either Shadow Counter or punish an eventual unsafe move (its gonna happen, patience is key).
Out of curiosity, do you think it would be broken if it was an overhead?
If they didn’t change its startup, yeah it’d be broken as an overhead. If they did change his startup he’d lose a lot of his footsies potential. He already has fast overheads with air dash mixups so he doesn’t need it.
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Hey, I have no idea how to message on this REALLY disorganized, glitchy site, but I’ve been trying to get into contact with you infil. Heres my message that I was trying to send you thanks! 
Okay, I don’t mean to bother but I also don’t want to come off as the average video game player. I have a lot of questions about killer instinct, and the reason why I came to you is because your guides are literally the best thing on the internet. I am a very analytical person and I don’t want to ask all of my questions on this one message, because I have a lot. Is there any way we can play together? I would appreciate it so much if you could help me practice on Xbox live… my email is jpfitness9433@gmail.com and my gamer tag is one1sh0tonek1ll. If you have to know, my main (or what I want to be my main) is riptor, but I also want to get good with cinder, hisako, orchid, and maya.
[quote=“one1sh0tonek1ll, post:13, topic:3851, full:true”]
Hey, I have no idea how to message on this REALLY disorganized, glitchy site, but I’ve been trying to get into contact with you infil. [/quote]
For future reference: Click his name, hit the message button directly across from it.
Awesome! exactly the type of info I was looking for. thanks.
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I should warn you, i have recently discovered something new.
when you do light slide, and it is blocked, you will be out of most characters throw ranges. BUT, if you do it in the corner, you will be punishable with a throw. So be ready to tech the throw once you are on the other side. (The throw lands BEFORE you fully recover, so i dont believe jumping will get you out of it. you MUST tech. and its a small window, so its risky.)
Omen light slide is -2 on block, so you’re at advantage but not punishable (the fastest normal in the game is 5 frames, and throws are also 5 frames. Some of the DP moves start in 3f but this is the fastest move in the game, so anything -2 or better is safe on block).
This means, if you predict a throw, you can tech it, or jump and you’re fine (your “pre-jump frames”, which is the time you spend still on the ground but trying to jump, cannot be thrown). But if you and your opponent try to press a fast button at the same time, your opponent will always win because he gets to start 2 frames before you. This is why being negative on block (but technically safe) is not the worst, but also not the best. You basically “give up your turn” to play and have to respect your opponent’s options, because when you’re negative on block, your opponent has a few trump cards.
If Omen is instinct, you get +2 frames on block and hit for everything, so Omen becomes 0 on block after slide and is in even better shape!
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Thank you for clarifying this better. There are a few details of frame data that i still don’t understand, so i can only give a basic idea of what is or isn’t safe. The rest (including methods of counter-hitting) i pretty much have to experiment with.
REALLY IMPORTANT! : Omens crouching light punch is his fastest far reaching normal. Infilament mentioned that your opponent should always win if they jab after light slide, but since Omens jab reaches farther that most of the cast can reach, it is POSSIBLE that the opponents will whiff, then yours will hit. So the odds are in your favor, but sometimes they will be fast enough to counter-hit, or you will get a “trade”.
No problem, just wanted to clarify in your post that you thought you could tech but you can’t jump. If you started on the ground, if you can tech a throw, you can also jump out of it, because trying to jump makes you immediately invincible to throws.
