For the most part I agree about the ultra themes, except for Mira’s. I think hers is epic!
I don’t remember hers…oops, I’ll have to listen to it again.
I want to see more of the making of music. so far gargos and raam are out and no vides
So I was gonna make @FallofSeraphs76’s point that they don’t have the holding power of Mick’s stuff, in entirely different words, so now I’m just gonna reply to some of the stuff said here. My personal two cents, a large cup of tea and Tusk-Rash-Kim themes in that order get me going for my work day.
Honestly, Arbiter’s is the only one I find jarring. I thought it would be the Halo theme, but it doesn’t really sound like it and doesn’t quite finish like it either. (If anyone has side-by-side video or even some video proof to prove me wrong, please do share. You know there’s that thing where you hear a distorted sound and you don’t know what it is, but then someone tells you something that sounds like it and you start hearing that instead of distorted garbage? That’s kind of how I want Arbiter’s Ultra explained.)
I effing love Rash’s Ultra, I’ll dance and hum to it when I’m on my own. Kim’s is growing on me, because I’m getting used to the rhythm of it only with her music. I have a problem with the end though, something about it throws me off. Tusk’s is the most godlike of all! Orchestra AND stomping?!? GIMME MORE STOMPS! Mira’s is good given the dark Russian theme. Now Gargos could maybe have been done better, more ruthless. I haven’t seen Raam’s so more on that some other time.
In tone, I agree. His and Sabrewulfs, may be the most appealing ones for me and the ones I sometimes just hum for fun.
Much as I love how they updated the old track, sadly this is the letdown. I mean, they adopted Tusk’s old theme into a funeral song with backup orchestra for the idle portion. They could’ve done something better with Gargos.
Well I don’t know guitar techniques enough but I do know that its kinda disrespectful to say that about someone who’s been doing it as a job and has had even reasonable success.
Absolutely, its why we have so many genres that cater to almost everyone. Very few people have tastes that match even close to 100%.
Link please, I’m always eager to hear new KI music. I love listening to @ShadowBeatz’s Spinal theme.
Let’s hope we get a response.
@rukizzel any word on these? Could you maybe put us in touch with someone who knows?
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Trust me I wish I could! It was on a streamers video some playlist on YouTube I believe.
You lot are crazy for not being into Gargos’s theme – it’s the best friggen theme in the game.
Having spent years in my local metal scene, it’s cringingly obvious how poorly Mick understands the genre in his metal-leaning themes. Mostly it seems like he’s putting together nu-metalesque music that takes a metal timbre whilst abandoning most of the technique, and when it works it’s usually for reasons outside of the metal genre. His work with DOOM got high praise heaped on it for being just the right kind of bad, edgy nu-metal fodder to go with that game’s tongue-in-cheek edginess. Gargos’s theme, on the other hand, draws deeply from the playbook of late 80s thrash/pre-death metal, and it’s ■■■■■■■ immaculately put together.
I’m not sure I saw it coming, either – CD and AP don’t seem to be known for their metal chops. I guess Rash’s sweet Van Halen-esque riffing was a good sign, but they brought in an external guitarist for that, and it seems like creatives in popular media in general want to get pre-80s metal right whilst screwing up anything beyond that. Kim Wu’s theme, on the other hand, seemed like classic Kim Wu’s theme plus distortion guitar noise, which suggests a desire to tap into the genre for the timbre and not the substance. Nevertheless I’m glad to’ve been pleasantly surprised by Gargos’s theme.
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See - as a fan of the genres that theme draws from - I really really enjoy it. A lot.
But it’s definitely a track that people who don’t dig more true-to-form metal won’t really warm up to.
Mick’s metal is more “Djent” - leaning it seems - with extreme low tunings, percussive riffing and minimalist distorted guitar tones. You either dig that kind of vibe or you don’t.
I still think Mick’s standout works in KI are Hinnamatoom, The Tiger Warrior, and Shatterhail.
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For me personally I think they hit the nail on the head for the following:
Tusk, Rash, Mira.
Arbitor and RAAM are mediocre but i think thats mainly due to them trying really hard to keep the sound from their respective games… which dont really mesh well with KI.
Gargos and Kim fall a bit flat due to the genericness of them 
So in my book they are doing a pretty good job speciallly since its there first time in the KI world.
I mean for season 1 I felt the music was only good for Fulgore, Spinal, Thunder, Sabrewulf, and the KI theme.
while glacius was mediocre. and the rest kinda fell flat in my book.
and Season 2 only had one bad song which was riptors theme, with the rest being fantastic.
So if there is a season 4 I feel like altas plug and celdweller will have gotten in the grove of things and start making even better sound tracks.
The thing is, I think Gargos’s theme is a fine piece of metal music, but it falls flat in context. There was a story with the soundtrack: Tiger Warrior represented Jago with the chanting and Eastern themes, but with a bit of that low guitar in the background. This was completely inverted in Herald of Gargos which was like a dueling theme between Gargos and Jago, with Jago’s lyrics and structure, but set to a scream metal song with a sample of Gargos’s theme.
I realize and respect that CD&AP get to do their own thing regardless of what came before, but it’s just disappointing that the story didn’t get it’s conclusion in the Gargos theme, which was completely different from the other two.
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I’ve said this before, but here’s the short & nasty on my take.
They do one thing really well: synth/rock…and no matter what the mood calls for, they throw it in somehow.
Here’s the analogy I’ve been using: Salsa is a great food…it’s good with several dishes: Tacos, enchiladas, etc.
…but they’re putting it on everything: Burritos, fried chicken & mashed potatoes, spaghetti, fruit salad, filet minion, mac & cheese…
when it calls for it, their synth/rock style works well: Arby, Raam, Kim Wu…they’re all ok.
The rest…the results are mixed to really, really bad.
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They’re doing alright, not quite the same as Mick’s work but it fits KI.
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Subjective wall of text incoming, please be aware that it is all subjective
I am a fan of this concept as well, specifically the idea that the theme can tell a story. But I’ll cover that in a separate topic. I’ll try and analyse the music in a little deeper detail though it’s not easy writing this all down.
The only two I can say confidently that CD and AP have managed to tell a story with are Arbiter (definitely considering their inclusion of impend from Halo 2 as the idle theme) and Tusk, even though it wasn’t quite what I’d expected from a Tusk re-render it fits the game and the context is relatively good in spite of what I would consider as a lack of care for the dynamic music engine.
This latter point is clearly demonstrated when they refer to the idle state (the state where all of Mick’s references to either the KI theme or the classic character themes appear) as “the boring state”. My frustration and annoyance at this abandonment of respect for something that, whilst you don’t often get to hear it, is included as a reference and an opportunity to do something genuinely interesting still persists, but not just with their handling of the idle theme.
For example, I’d have at least expected the logical choice for Gargos’ high combo theme to be the callback to his original. However it’s currently something else entirely that sounds closer to a danger loop if memory serves which is a real shame as it can throw you off at first.
Moreover, I agree with those saying that Mick’s themes have more weight to them. Part of that is down to the mixing and instrumentation, I believe. I take as my example the opening of the Gargos theme from CD and AP. We hear a large spread out chord of the main note of the theme (B in this case), with guitars panned to fill the space in the left and right whilst drums fill the centre channel and cymbals enter into the surrounding space when necessary. However, what I’d consider as an error of judgement and the composers dropping the ball, thereby making the theme less impactful is the fact that the main rehash of the intro riff from his original theme is reduced to one guitar (maybe two depending on the processing) compared to what is likely to be 4 at least that play the introductary chord. Further exacerbating the problem is the fact that the riff guitars are panned to centre thus limiting their ability to be easily distinguished from the noise of not only the in-game character intros, but the rest of the “band” as it were.
One thing I continued to notice is that Mick’s bass sounds, when heard in tracks like Kan-Ra, Aganos, Jago, Spinal and Cinder’s themes to name but a few, are clearly audible and fit well from a frequency perspective within the overall sound of the piece. This is, in part, because the basslines are an octave lower than the guitar part they’re following. Jago’s theme is a good example of this, with the bassline following the guitar switching between B and C sharp, but an octave below providing an extra layer to the audible landscape.
However, listening to Raam’s theme, which you can hear <a href=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSwUCzDKGmU” here thanks to RKosmik), the bassline, at several points, follows the guitar exactly at the same pitch (though this is not true for the entirety of the theme, just for certain places). Now I understand that putting this bassline down an octave would be tricky and clash with the orchestral part, but at times it doesn’t feel like it has the same weight partially because there’s not enough… well… bass on it and it could be turned up a little in the mix. I also realise that this is subjective, but I just think that given the chance to add more bass frequencies to the bass guitars and possibly the drums in places, this theme could have an extra level of weight to it to allow it to stand confidently toe-to-toe with Mick’s themes for Aganos Jago, Spinal, Fulgore and the rest.
That is not to say the work is bad, no. It’s just different but I think considering Mick set the bar so high, it was nearly guaranteed to be a hard act to follow. Coming from their music industry background (which seem to be at least Celldweller’s background if not Atlas as well), their concepts of musical production for a videogame might be very different. I think that’s what we’re seeing now, the differences are sometimes frustrating. But since we can’t do much about it, we just gotta hope that the themes get better over time.
For me, Arbiter’s, Tusk’s and Raam’s are good examples of following as much as they can in Mick Gordon’s footsteps (though taking their own direction), whilst there are aspects of Kim Wu’s, Rash’s, Mira’s and Gargos’ theme that could’ve used something different. Rash didn’t need that much KI theme inclusion, Kim didn’t necessarily need that vocoded high combo line to be the high combo line (as a version of her main theme might’ve fit better there I thought), Mira suffers from the electronic injection which is a shame as it has a large amount of promise on paper but not enough depth and Gargos’ theme as I partially explained before has a few key elements that throw me off and make me see it not as an extension of KI2’s theme as it should be, but almost as if someone had tried to remix it for a youtube video with mostly their own ideas and not working from the concepts laid down by what should’ve theoretically been their starting block.
This isn’t my entire opinion on the matter, but I’ll see what they do for any custom scoring for Shadow Lords and future themes. If they put as much work into any future themes as they did on Raam and come out with as good an end product, I’ll be at least pretty happy.
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IMO
I think Mick should have finished season 3
and been a consultant for all future tracks.
Kim Wu I love but I’m biased for robin beanlands original anyway I love the shouting girls though-
I will always wonder what his Kim track could have been
I’m satisified with TUsk theme but again-
Arby/ Mira / Raam all sound in attempt to be cohesive where you can distinguish Hisako theme from Glacius theme and get CHILLS still
I can appreciate attention to the soundtrack but wonder if deep decision of choices of instruments would have defined season 3 characters more.
‘Here’s my guitar/ techno riff for Raam’ as opposed to ‘Thunder theme is about Pow Wow drums and native flutes and Nez Perce chanting’
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I really like Tusk’s and Mira’s themes. They’ve done a really good job! Each theme doesn’t have that uniquity to them though, as the past two seasons, but the music is great none the less.
I really like that they tried with Mira…it has some really good stuff going on with the Russian opera & the string’s rhythm, also nods to Russian classical style…
…but then there’s that electric horsefly buzzing around…
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I like electric horseflies…
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As do I…but not in my vodka.
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MM-MM, oh no they didn’t! Not the vodka!
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So far I think Tusk, Arby, and Rash and Gargos are good. Kim feels like a mixed bag and it doesn’t feel consistant flow wise. I wish it had a bit more of the traditional instrument parts