And you’re right. But we’re getting off topic ^^
Thanks, indeed.
OK, so this afternoon I’ll be testing out the Shadow Fireball scenario, with and without reaction to the freeze in mind.
I fought several Jagos over the weekend, and for some reason I feel far more comfortable playing keep-away, fishing for combo opportunities from 1/2 - 3/4 screen, and applying a bit of wakeup pressure when I manage to score one. It works fairly often but something just doesn’t feel right to me. Anyone feel the same or differently about this approach?
@R1stormrider isn’t at all the first person I’ve seen expressing difficulty with Jago’s jump mix-up shenanigans. I’ll be tossing scenarios around this week.
Smacking a Jago taunting from full screen with a wall-bounced J+HP is immensely satisfying. 
well honestly i went and counted him low and it worked lol. his jumping FP was hitting all the way down to her ankles -_-
ive countered high and it dont work out alot of the time. i think maybe some guys are delaying the hit to go low rather than high?
Is it that if it’s a cross-up, it counts an Overhead and therefore catches low. Not a cross-up it counts as a regular high?
Hmm, not so sure. The attack is still a jumping attack, despite how deep the crossup is, so it should technically be blocked high and therefore countered high.
I’ll be in training mode this afternoon and iron this out.
try it and let us know please lol, ive seen his FP hit her mid section too and i counter high and nothing. still hit, i had at least 50 wrath i can say. 100% i didnt know either high or low did not matter on counter, thats totally new to me
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To add in:
Was it just that they were crouched when the attack was incoming and forced it into a low counter instead of a standing high?
when i saw it, he was flipping 1 inch above the damn ground still and his blade hitting her leg
Well when she’s in instinct, the P P P vs. K K K doesn’t matter. Otherwise it should.
I’ll report back with results by tonight or tomorrow morning 
I’ll be sure to play this angle as well!
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Where it actually hits is not the issue, and in fact most overheads hit pretty low by nature as they are designed to hit opponents who are crouch blocking. Each attack is assigned to hit either low, mid or overhead, and where they actually hit is irrelevant. You could do a jumping kick and hit Aganos right in the toe and he would still have to block high, likewise is there was a tiny character he would have to block a sweep low even if the foot was taller than him.
Is it possible you were in instinct when you low countered a jump in? Instinct mode makes both counters catch everything so this could explain how you could low counter a jump in. Also, the counter window is quite short at 19 frames (just under 1/3 of a second) so it could be that although you saw the high counter come out and it looked like you should have caught it you were actually too early (which has happened to me a few times).
I am at home now so will soon test the fireball questions, this high low issue and the startup of counter with 0 wrath as LEboueur mentioned as I had not seen anything about the startup being slower.
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Thanks for pitching in on the lab work Bane! 
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i gotta think deep about it and try to remember, its been a week since my last bout online. it could be that i was in instinct mode at the time, but i cannot for certain say whether i was or not. thanks for all the input today, you marble and lebo are great help!
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1st round of tests (with one side test) done: vs shadow fireball.
You can low profile shadow fireball on reaction to the freeze, even from point blank range. However, I thought that since you cannot react to moves with 0 post-freeze startup frames that it meant that the move essentially came out at the end of the freeze frame, which would naturally mean that a 1 frame move like shadow endokuken came out on the frame directly after the freeze, with the only real difference being that you can react to the 1 frame move. However, there actually is a frame in between the freeze and the fireball coming out, so this only means she low profiles from frame 2 and doesn’t prove anything about the first frame. That will have to be frame stepped to actually look at the hurtbox (which I will do shortly).
Tl,dr: hisako can low profile shadow fireball on reaction, low profiles from at least frame 2, further testing required for 1st frame.
Punishes: after doing this, I could get any grounded punish except a heavy on ryo zan (didn’t try tk air orz), timing was a bit tight with the medium but doable.
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Spent some time with the super-deep Jago crossup. As I suspected, the only way K K K will work as a counter is if Hisako is in instinct. Crouching or standing, my result was 100% the same out of instinct: P P P gives us a combo, and K K K gives us a bleeding wound to the knee or shin.
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Nice one marble, that’s test 2 done, and I’ve just finished a quick test of the third issue and have found no evidence of any slowdown to the counter when low on wrath. Where have you heard this @LEboueur ?
Did you ever think to dash right under Jago’s DP after blocking? All versions apply.
Please see this load of silliness for verification:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=754333DB40D9D30F!137&authkey=!AIGcsEs8METOkMc&ithint=video%2Cmp4
NOTE: You can’t be too close to Jago with his Heavy DP for this to work; you’ll cross-over and get a backdash. Just a slight bit of distance will correct this.
Just remember, a whiffed DP into a Shadow DP will punish that.
Was Jago set to block the cross-up on landing?
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Oh sure! The sweep/dash back portion of that is irrelevant (thus my calling it a load of silliness). I was just outlining the possibility of the post-DP dash; what someone chooses to do after the dash-under should be totally situational, and the Jago’s habits should be taken into consideration.
For instance: If they like to wind-kick a lot, one could dash under the DP and wait; the dash will put you at premium wind-kicking distance once they land, and you could go for a catch-counter, or dash under their wind kick for further disorientation.
Just another “legal movement”. It’s up to us to use it wisely.
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I’m going to put the tips in the Thread for Jagos matchups. Now that I think about it, I don’t think it wise to put tips on Jagos perspective when the thread is about beating him.
Hah! I see how it is… adopt the info from this thread to the Jago thread, but withold information from this one… 
And 
And 
for good measure
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