Hisako in S3

Figured I’d just put this here for people’s thoughts on Hisako moving forward. Will put a change list up when it becomes available.

RIP Low Counter :cry:

EDIT: Full Patch Notes Below
[-] Added travel distance to Influence Linkers against Aganos only to ensure they never fail to hit him.
[-] Adjusted the size of the Vulnerable Boxes during fidgets to match the size of the Vulnerable Boxes during idle.
[-] Low Vengeance Counter is no longer able to catch Mid attacks.
[-] Added recovery to the landing of Air ORZ making it a bit worse on whiff. If you hit too high it’s possible to be punishable, but it is also possible to still be +3 or so.
[-] Slowed startup of Med and Hvy Air ORZ (by 4 and 8 frames) and altered the way they move in the air a bit to compensate.
[+] Improved the hitbox of Hvy Air ORZ so it hits higher up and crosses up easier, making it worth the extra startup.
[-] Wrath meter no longer recharges while jumping.
[+] Wrath regeneration speed is increased by 50%.
[+] Close HP, Far HK, and Close HK all cause Stagger on counterhit and deal much more hitstun.
[+] Standing LP and Jumping LP cause Flipout.
[+] You can now jump cancel the 3rd Heavy ORZ if you hit an airborne opponent, and using 2nd Heavy ORZ to juggle into the 3rd hit is easier.
[+] Descent is no longer affected by Kan-Ra’s Curse.
[+] Descent crushes highs 1 frame sooner and gets underground 10 frames sooner.
[+] Hisako used to be able to cancel out of Descent on frame 48 into attacks only. Now she can cancel into movement as well, and on frame 42 instead.
[+] New Shadow Move: Air Shadow On Ryo Zan! Hisako can perform a Shadow version of Air ORZ! This version hits rapidly and always recaptures air opponents, and staggers grounded opponents.
[+] New Ability: Descent Cancel! Hisako can now cancel into Descent in any situation she could Wrath cancel for a Vengeance counter. This costs half Wrath just like the Vengeance cancel does.

Those new air juggles look so cool! Can’t wait to try them out when it releases

when’s fully invincible dp???

being serious though I’m pretty excited about the changes, the teleport improvements seem good to me in particular (although this may largely be due to my bad habit of overusing the dang thing) and the new aerial stuff looks really cool! hopefully the exhibition matches will give us a better idea of how they can work practically.

I’m loving her new air Shadow Rekka, but I’m wondering if can be used as an instant overhead.

Doubt it, Keits kept missing the juggle with it meaning that there are frames after the freeze.

I’d imagine so. Most air specials can be TK’d, and their shadow version can be as well.

1 Like

I’m actually happy with her changes. I knew they would nerf her low counter so that didn’t surprise. Love the new shadow move and juggling with rekka. I will still main Hisako UNLESS Arbiter is amazing because I have a week spot for Halo.

Watched the stream again. Descent is actually pretty darn fast now, so there may in fact be some use for it. I’ve been pretty ambivalent about it elsewhere on the forum, so consider this my mea culpa - I’m actually excited now to see what we can come up with using it.

It seems that Hisako was nerfed to a lesser extent than other characters. I like it.

1 Like

Generally true, but the low counter nerf is a pretty big one I think for most Hisako’s. She’s kind of like Aganos - didn’t really get nerfed too much, but the nerfs she got are comparatively big ones.

1 Like

I actually always used her counter like that, intuitively. I’ve know since day one that, in the ground game, it was usually better to go with her low counter, I just never really did it and only went for low counter when I read low offense.

Not that it matters for the nerf, of course. :slight_smile:

@TheKeits - Just curious if the weird wrath cancels that Hisako used to get off certain normals into ultra was one of the unlisted changes mentioned in the stream and patch notes. Wasn’t a super critical issue most of the time, but have definitely lost a game or three due to unwanted wrath cancels instead of ultra. I think close MK manual in particular had this issue :confused:

crosses fingers and hopes it was fixed

1 Like

@STORM179 Oh yeah this is annoying lol. I have lost matches due to dropping my ultra because of wrath cancel.

I was hoping for a projectile counter of some type. Her faster decent is probably a good enough buff I guess.

Hisako is probably the character I have the most issue with in the rebalance, especially since she already struggles competitively. The nerf to low-Vengeance is unnecessary and makes her counter mechanic even more risky. It remains to be seen how much of a difference the faster Descent will actually make since it was too slow in the first place, and Shadow Air ORZ is a pretty lame new move that I don’t think will add much to her existing tools.

So far, Hisako seems like one of the few characters who was overall nerfed for S3. We’ll see.

1 Like

i dont think her changes are too bad. the vengeance nerf actually doesnt affect me luckily, i never used the low variant to counter mids, only lows. everything else id do high. guess my old tekken 3 days comin back to haunt me when i mained jin kazama

I agree. Some players never used air ORZ because it’s hard to land properly. Now it will be punishable on whiff? Say goodbye to that move ever being risked…
And I don’t know if I see myself using shadow air ORZ over shadow attacks that will actually hit. How about giving Hisako a nice battery ender instead?
Catch counter failure chance just shot way up.

The only useful thing I see is faster descent. Unless they revisit these changes, I think she’s in for a harsh beating in S3.

Oh and I’m not a fan of obscure little arbitrations such as “hitting air opponents with a heavy version of the third strike of ground ORZ causes a ground bounce that you can juggle!” Uh okay… I think I’ll just rely on my combos instead of trying to do that. These S3 notes for all characters have too much “use the right strength attack at the right time and you can flip out and ground bounce!” It’s just so obscure. Unintuitive. New players already see the game as too daunting to learn and that’s without all the secret follow-up attacks.

The extra recovery is annoying, but air-ORZ will remain one of Hisako’s best moves. A cross-up overhead that recaptures if they try to jump out? You’ll still see this used quite a bit among good Hisako’s. I’m more annoyed by the increased start up time - the medium one used to be pretty unreactable when done meaty on someone’s wakeup, and the heavy one was already too slow to be of much use. We’ll have to see if the trajectory changes make the nerfs worth it. I’m kind of dubious about it, but time will tell.

I am with you on shadow air-ORZ though - with good wrath management Hisako didn’t need anything like this, and unless its startup and priority is good enough to beat some of the better air normals in the game, I don’t really see myself using it.

“Wrath will no long refresh while jumping.”

This is neither here nor there. They did make it faster, but being forced to the ground for regen is just annoying. Mostly I just don’t understand the change. Were people complaining that wrath regen is OP?

Maybe they just didn’t like their creepy crawlie jumping around like a gummy bear, messing with her presentation style, I don’t know :wink: