Heavy PP loses to Rash's Shadow Boot

Title says it all. Heavy PP lost to Shadow Boot in a match, watched replay with inputs on, and confirmed multiple times in the lab. Hopefully it is isolated to this.

So much for an invincible reversal. :neutral_face:

Nevermind…oh and heavy PP does lose since it’s a special. Shadow moves>specials. That’s the proirty system.

Yeah it’s priority system. Even Jago and fulgore DPs would lose.

I think Jago’s DP actually has some funniness going on where you can DP shadow boot on reaction and come out pretty happy (can’t remember if it’s a clean win or just a favorable trade).

But yeah, grounded shadow invincible reversal generally greater than grounded invincible reversal.

This is the priority system.

Throw>Shadow>Special>Heavy>Medium>Light grounded

Throw>Special>Heavy>Medium>Light Air

Strikes trade with projectiles, projectiles>throws, throws>strikes

Projectile crush attacks>throws and non-character projectiles, and trade with strikes (any strength)

Character projectiles=crush projectiles> throws, trade with strikes (any strength)

Armor>strikes and projectiles loses to throws

Kryll armor> one strike, infinite projectiles, loses to throws and shadow projectiles

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Than it’s not invincible.

Whatever though, never had one, so I wasn’t aware it lost to this particular “priority” system.

Oh no it’s invincible. Make no mistake. You can’t throw it, or strike at glacius’ green hurtboxes. But his PP itself (the red strike hitboxes) are able to be hit. BUT only by a shadow move (whihc will beat it if they clash) or trade with another grounded special move whatever that may be.

I haven’t tested, but doesn’t shadow boot has more invulnerable frames than Puddle punch?

I mean,it’s a matter of logic and balance

Puddle punch has invulnerable frames, but fewer invul and active frames than shadow boot, so if both collide, the one which active/invulnerable frames last longer wins.

I mean, besides priority, if both attacks would be of the same priority, shadow boot would win anyway

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No, it doesn’t matter about the I-frames in a trade scenario. You could have I-frames that last 50 frames. But as long as there’s a hitbox (red) or a crush projectile hitbox and they trade…you’ll get hit. That’s where the priority system comes in.

Glacius’ H PP CAN beat out shadow big bad boot. But it’s space dependent. So glacius’ players should start testing out at what ranges they can knock out the toad at.

Oh and Shadow big bad boot has less I-frames then Heavy PP. Just FYI.

No reversal with an attack box in this game is actually invincible, because all red attack boxes can be hit.

Invincible just means “no green hurtbox”, so you MUST win or tie the priority trade to beat it. Invincible specials will beat all normals and throws, for instance, because there is no green hitbox to hit first, and those can’t win a priority trade.

But you can even trade with Jago’s DP just by doing a wind kick, with correct timing.

In the general sense, when two invincible moves “collide”, some resolution has to be made. Usually, the move that is invincible the longest will win, but small variations in timing and spacing can really change how this works. In this specific case, I fully expect it to be the case that Rash’s shadow boot puts a hitbox out that Glacius’s red attack box runs into when he comes up from heavy puddle punch (and Rash wins the priority trade because it’s a shadow move).

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Yes, I’ve seen the explanation of hitboxes and the priority system. I can understand being hit out of the move or knocked down. I guess my confusion is that without a hurtbox, how can the KO occur? I thought you needed the hurtbox to accrue damage.

Dont’ forget crush projectiles too. Those can be beaten. The only hitboxes that can’t be hit in any way shape or form are kan-ra’s pink hitboxes.

In KI, all red hitboxes are also hurtboxes, but hurtboxes that can only be hit by attacks of the same or higher priority. You can die by getting your red attack box hit by a higher priority attack, even if your attack is fully invincible to everything else (ie, no green hurtbox which gets hit by everything).

It’s a bit of a weird system.