Gargos is annoying to fight

Just out of curiosity, which characters do you own?

Jago indeed :smiley:

So just Jago? No other characters interested you or struck you as a “fun” design?

EDIT: Not trying to harangue you or anything. Just curious :slight_smile:

There are really good chars of course but still I’m trying to improve my muscle memory. I have only 7+ online gameplay time, I just became Killer level and I saw Jago is not enough. After some training I’ll buy another char too.

Do what exactly? create characters which are easy to use at low level to captivate the average player and not simply cater to the FGC scene?

Yes, they do. All of them. And so they should, if they want their game to succeed. Fighters aren’t all about the scene, I’d think anyone could understand that.

By intermediate level I mean actually really knowing the game’s engine and fighting mechanics, having a good amount of play time and experience. Basically the level right below competitive FGC player that frequents majors.

Hmm. I recommend visiting this thread:

Jago is decidedly “enough” if you’re talking about capacity to compete at high level against the cast. It does take a certain mind and skillset, mind you, but Jago is very strong, even against some of the crazier characters in the cast.

As to the other point about characters’ balance being compromised to sell more of that character…we’ll have to agree to disagree. Gargos isn’t meant to be “normal” - he’s a boss and his overwhelming toolset is meant to reflect that. He also doesn’t seem very good at all at “noob” level; his offense is too layered and his defense is too bad for that to be the case. But reasonable people can disagree.

doing unbalanced char is not acceptable by me. FG companies do that for catching many “new” players as you said but nobody cares. NetherRealm did that in Injustice with Scorpion, it killed comp. scene. In MKX we saw Alien, before that Kitana. Erron was unbalanced too. In GG Xrd Elphelt is unbalanced. In SFV Chun-Li is unbalanced, 100% God tier. But this doesn’t mean choosing this char makes you number 1 in the scene or tourneys. Everybody knows that Chun is God-tier but we didn’t see any Chun-li winner for any major tourneys. That’s my point. Gargos players maybe can not win top 100 Killer players but there are thousands of new/mid-range players too. Easy wins for a unbalanced char of milking more money, wow, so creative.

maybe 50+ hours later I can think like that but right now I can be so easy. No matter what I do, I would lost against some bad match ups. Actually after some muscle memory trainings I’ll look at all the frame data and punishes. let’s see.

Yeah, you don’t seem to understand what unbalanced means =/

'ts ok, carry on.

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By what standard?

Everyone’s? =S

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I’m pretty sure no one has ever said to themselves “this game has a broken op character? I have to buy it!” If that were the case UMVC3 would be the highest selling fighting game of all time. Instead it was a financial failure.

That sounds like…well you know. Anyway, if anything anime games are easier overall.

umvc3 is just a broken game so selling a broken char had no point. Also new players don’t know what the unbalanced, broken, OP char means. If a fighter looks like so strong (by design, move, damage etc) that fighter can be sold very good. USFIV was not a F2P game or DLC but sold very good cos E.Ryu and Elena were 100% OP. You can look at other F2P games as well. For ex. in FPS games, new weapons are mostly op, very useful and charming. and what? very good selling numbers. Players love to use power, more power and love to abuse that power if they can. Game devs, producers know that. I know that. Trust me :wink:

Yeah Gargos is not OP, his portal punches can be easily avoided is they come out fairly slow. He sucks at mid-range, he has a poor wakeup game and he doesn’t do well against pressure. Many of his tools are slow, including his walk, dash, and jumps…if you know what you’re doing Gargos is no threat. OGZvolkan you need to learn the match-up

Oh, come on ^^ what does it sound like? It was the developers’ intention to make the game as accessible as possible to newcomers and non veteran players. The game mechanics were simplified, combos were streamlined, links were given a 3frame buffer window at minimum, and the game was made much more about footsies, spacing and poking than any SF in recent years. All of that helps players into the game.

SFV is supposed to be friendly to newcomers. Bear in mind, I am not saying this is a negative thing nor am I attacking the game ^^ for everything that SFV does wrong and for everything that’s utterly bad in it, gameplay is most definitely not among those things. It’s where the game shines, and it’s what made me play it for quite some time.

As for “anime games are easier”, I don’t know if I want to get into that discussion. We should probably just agree to disagree instead of further derailing the topic. I do not, in any way, shape or form agree with that statement, though. Anime games are far more complicated and require much more time and commitment to learn than any SF game (generally speaking, there will always exist the odd one out that would contradict this “rule”). This is, in my opinion, of course.

alright, whatever you say.

tbh SFV is the worst example for a easy fight game. The execution is easier than SFIV and thats it. It is still harder than KI due to links and Critical Art inputs. On Top of that your neutral game needs to be on point to get good and that is simply not easy to learn for newcomers.

SFV has everything to make it frustrating for newcomers not easier.

Oh well, I don’t agree with that at all. KI may make it seem like much more is happening if a player starts mashing and it may allow someone who barely knows how to play to easily pull off highly damaging combos without an execution barrier, but that’s about all it does for newcomers.

As soon as a player wants to actually start learning the game, the combo system by itself is a monster that has so much to explore and learn that it’s oppressive to newcomers. And then there are all the mechanics, all the intricacies of said mechanics, the insane amount of character specific movement options, resource managing, HUD elements and gameplay mechanics.

Not having 2xqcf motions does not make KI easier than SFV, not by a long shot. While SFV may not have auto doubles and linkers which kinda make for really easy mash-friendly combos, it also has almost no complicated mechanics or character specific stuff, and what it does have (in the V system) is pretty straightforward to learn and use.

I mean, even the universal counter mechanic in SFV is simply block > press forward + 2 buttons to get a reversal attack. In KI you have to time it like a parry, block > press 2 buttons and parry the next hit. Such a huge difference right there, in terms of learning how to use it and understanding it.

Then there’s the V gauge and V trigger, which is basically a much simpler instinct activation, with much less character specific intricacies and much less effect on the battle itself.

Also, you list neutral game being a huge focus of the game as something of an issue for newcomers, but in fact there’s also the other side of that coin: exactly because the game is so focused on neutral, it has much less crazy stuff happening, much slower pace overall, much less confusion. It’s a lot easier for a new comer to be perfectly aware of what’s happening, and try and learn. KI is simply crazy, and for a beginner to actually get into it, and especially for a player who has any sort of FG bases to make the transition to KI, it takes a lot of commitment and effort.

I really feel like this wall is what keeps a lot of players from playing the game, and I’m not talking about newcomers to the FGC anymore. For veteran FGC players, there’s also a pretty big wall to climb to actually learn KI, IMO.

Anyway, opinions will be opinions. IMO, SFV is perfect for newcomers to learn the basis of fighting games. It’s a grounded, pretty straightforward game that focuses on good fundamentals. It’s also at this that it excels and proves to be a pretty good fighter.