Haha yeah fair enough
If someone is using flipout in the corner, theyâre doing it wrong. Just about every character that has flipout also has a wallsplat, which provides the same reset capability plus more.
Wallsplat:
-unbreakable
-forces a throw tech situation
-provides reset capability for low,overhead, throw, command grab
-can be instinct cancelled to continue the combo or go into Ultra
-can be used to bait a counterbreaker with a manual
-gives guaranteed (scaled) damage for command grab characters
Flipout:
-breakable (always light) and obviously counter breakable
-can happen at random moments (which reduces its effectiveness as counter breaker bait)
-provides reset capability, where throw may or may not be an option
I donât recall anyone complaining about wall splat as a game mechanic, yet itâs a way stronger tool than flipout.
10 Likes
Wall splat stood on its own and is situational - flipouts is a mess and doesnât need to be there.
Rarely is there KV to do anything too absurd off wall bounce without counter breaking, flipouts donât have that issue.
Doing a reset off a wall splat is pretty much the same as flipout that is slightly slower and have more options.
3 Likes
Flip out is a bigger problem than hard knockdowns, with hard knock downs I have time to think about what your going to do and come up with a option. Flip outs are so fast that you might not even notice it in time while the character is making guess left or right, high or low, attack or command grab. And to everyone saying its breakable yes that is true but it is a manual so its automatically harder to break plus on top of that the people that Iâve fought that used flip out switched up the timing or just end the juggle. In my opinion killer instinct was skewed in offense favor this just automatically increased that even more . Season 3 introduced two new options to increase your offense while defense play has got nothing to counteract Super Offensive play. The last thing is Flip outs have little risk for high reward. If my opponent breaks right than back to neutral but if not free mix up that can and more than likely lead into that characters vortex. In my opinion flip out are unnecessary in a heavily offensive game but if had to be implement Flip outs IG should of implemented another defensive option to help balance it out.
1 Like
I dunno, I think itâs pretty obvious when someoneâs going to use flipout since itâs usually used when the KV is at max. And just like normal mixups characters can reversal out, so we donât need more defensive options.
3 Likes
Like i said the people i played did it seemed randomly not always when the kv was maxed sometimes at the very beginning and sometimes like you said when the kv is maxed. Also what about kan-Ra, Maya, Rash, Hisako, Aria, Spinal, Riptor and a couple of other characters who do do not have a dp and/or is not readily available what your saying is true for specific characters but what I am saying for everyone not a select match ups.
âŠWall bounce lets you throw them for a fat chunk of damage, and they donât have DP/backdash/jump/safe throw inv move as an option. They are being forced to play a completely binary mixup game, with the payout for you being either a throw, a new combo, or a counter breaker. I donât think Iâd be wrong in saying that for most characters, their wallsplat mixups are stronger than their flipout mixups.
Do keep in mind that for pretty much everyone with a flipout, itâs going to come at a pretty specific point in a combo. Thunder has pretty much the best flipout options in the game, so to use him as an example, the times he can flip you out are:
- after launcher ender
- after shadow damage ender
- after sammamish
- after skyfall
Thatâs a pretty limited number of scenarios, and all of them give you time to prepare for the mixup. Sure, he can go into other options, but the point is that if you look for the flipout specifically you can be ready for the options that come after it.
1 Like
How would you guys feel if they gave Aganos a flipout with his up finger-flick?
IMO it would be a mostly lateral move for him. He loses the ability to do flick xx medium rock to chuck them fullscreen, but gains an option for a quick up-close mixup. It would probably not do him any favors when heâs out of chunks.
It would probably be a nerf (or, at best, a lateral move).
Aganos has no real mixups that benefit from flipout, but the benefit of a soft knockdown from up flick is strong, because he can cancel into special moves (for example, up flick into ruin into a wall).
Iâd like to thank you both for telling me about this. While I knew about these setupsâ existence, I didnât generally use them in my own gameplay, and have, to be frank, quite forgotten about them as a result (although I do implement follow-ups such as ruin into wall-crash on the c.HP). Itâs nice to have an âoh yeah!â moment every now and again - I will be (re)incorporating these into my strategy post-haste. 
EDIT: The timing on that is super-strict! I canât get my fingers to move fast enough using the d-pad and all sorts of wrong stuff comes out if I try to use the joystick. Itâs no wonder I never used it! Iâll have tp really, really practice to get the muscle memory down for this 1âŠ
Place guess in the front of each of those optionsâŠ
Whatâs your point? Anything you do on wakeup is a guess. Thatâs fighting games.
3 Likes
The point is that the rate in which guessing is consistently induced per the defender is absurd. I donât mind the flip out mechanic over all⊠I just think itâs too strong in itâs current state.
Nothing about that is different from your options from a hard knockdown other than the amount of time between the hit and the mixup. If the increased speed of the mixup is a consistent problem for you on defense, the issue is not that youâre being forced to guess too often, itâs that youâre failing to react to the possibility of a flipout coming and are depriving yourself of the opportunity to even guess in the first place. In that case, itâs not an issue with the mechanic at all, youâre just getting gimmicked out. The solution there is to study matches where flipout is giving you problems and figure out what to look for that telegraphs that a flipout may be coming.
2 Likes
Thatâs an audible affirmation considering Iâm not the one having the issue with it⊠I just feel sorry for the other few thousand players that have to come cross me while I abuse the gimmick. I guess the âGit Goodâ statement is all I can offer the my fellow enthusiasts this season⊠Kanye Shrug Iâd just like for the opposition to be able to fight back most of the time.
The opposition CAN fight back, ALL of the time, if theyâre paying attention and know the matchup. All fighting games will have gimmicks. If flipout was not in the game youâd just be doing hard knockdowns, running the exact same mixups, and still trashing on the scrubs. Scrubs will be scrubs will be scrubs, no matter what game youâre playing. The âproblemâ with flipout is not an issue with the mechanic, itâs an issue with the common mentality of refusing to take a little time in training mode to learn.
3 Likes
KI, from season 1 to season 2 to season 3, forces defenders to just straight up pure guess after lots of situations, including hard knockdowns (which is also all throws), some soft knockdowns, and all wall splat enders. In season 1, you had to guess every time you got combo broken, too.
But now, in season 3, guessing after flipout is too much? Especially since if you took flipout away, theyâd just run a hard knockdown setup on you and force you to guess a similar ambiguous mixup?
Again, if you have a problem with flipout, you can talk about how fast the mixup comes, and why you like or dislike that (discuss it in the context of existing standing resets, and why those are or arenât too slow, please). But you canât say âI have to guess, therefore I feel helplessâ. You got hit (mistake 1), you didnât break any of the attacks leading to the flipout (mistake 2), and now you have to guess.
This is a universal fighting game principle.
5 Likes
As I stated from the very beginning, I personally do not have an issue with the mechanic itself⊠I like it, but I take issue with the fact that it has the potential to be highly abusive. 1 chance breaks to flip out situations back to back to back = constant guessing situations???.. I do it often⊠& it works, but it gets fatiguing to routinely body people on a consistent basis that canât or wonât fight back, & Iâm pretty sure itâs no fun or them. I no longer have a reason to perform longer intricate combo strings for big damage⊠I can just do resets all day & keep the opposition guessing. Maybe I am wrong about how I feel⊠Maybe the competition is just sparse⊠Maybe itâs time the high competitive ones get a mode of their own⊠beyond killer.