So… lets talk about it. Why is it good? Why is not good… ?
I personally feel that mechanics like this are rage inducing. I’m not opposed to these mechanics in moderation, however, they force you to guess constantly; all while making the essential foundation that the game was built on, minuscule. Footsies, mind games in accordance to the opposition, strategies, defense, tech, etc. These things have become null & void. I’m gambling 90% of the time & getting ruined on 0-2 chance breaks that result in a ridiculous amounts of damage, in a game where combo breaking is essential; all because of guessing after flip out or stagger???.
I’ve adapted, gotten gud, and all that jazz… but that doesn’t necessarily make the game fun. I’d like to play this game in the realm of actually being in control as per s1 & s2, opposed to random crap just happening throughout every match I play. I feel like I’m the game & my xbox is playing me… wth…
There was word about some balance changes that are going to be coming into fruition. If they pphhuck this up anymore than it already is… I’M DONE…
Chula Out…
P.S.
I’m not a game designer, I just know what I don’t like.
I’m not nearly good enough to comment intelligently on this. But I am extremely curious about it. Are the guessing games you’re talking about more central to the game against certain characters? Or is the problem universal?
Put another way, which characters have the guessing-gamiest approaches?
I don’t understand the guessing after a stagger thing. It’s just fancy hitstun that let’s you guarantee a grab. There’s no guesswork involved. If they’re using stagger to set up a mixup, then whatever they’re mixing you up with isn’t made any less reactable by being staggered.
Similarly, flipouts just enable a mixup post-launcher. What you get mixed up with isn’t any less reactable than if they had gone for it elsewhere. Flipouts don’t enable mixup options that are otherwise non-existent to the character. Perhaps the short window of time you have to recognize the flipout and defend accordingly can be pretty small if you’re expecting the juggle to end in a knockdown or cashout, but you can still recognize it and apply your knowledge of the opponents mixup options as you would in any other scenario. Just gotta be ready to get reset, is all. I don’t see a lot of extraneous guesswork there.
I think now is a good time to mention that I’ve only been playing KI since the S3 PC launch. That said, I had just sort of assumed high damage, few break-chance combos were the preferred standard outside of lockout confirmation (and presumably constructed to enable a confirm on lockout before committing to an ender) as that would be closest way to guarantee damage outside of stray hits. It’s been my experience in fighting games that people generally want damage out of their successes in neutral, and so logically would seek to deny the opponent of as many opportunities to void that damage as possible. Maybe I was wrong in my assumption, that’s just the way I see it.
Further, flip-out and stagger are monumental enablers of strategic gameplay and high-tech. So the idea that the game used to have these elements and does not now just sounds ridiculous.
TL;DR
Flipout: Good, strategic, high-tech
Stagger: Good, strategic, high-tech
Guessing: Not advised
1 Chance Breaks: Players, not the game
I think I understand what your getting at…as it can be hard to break multiple juggles that are all basically like trying to react to a manual mid combo but these are harder to recognize as they are the normal moves you memorize to break like ADs and manuals mid combo.
for instance Rash can juggle you up to 7 times and the strength of the bot kick has no visual que. Sadiras in air juggles all look the same as well.
Fighting against a really good juggler can be frustrating as you basically having to break manuals and if you get it wrong you locked out for possible recaptures or even worse Counter breakers.
Its just a whole different strategy that Im noticing is getting much more popular…so we have to adapt and learn to recognize this type of play.
The stagger Im not sure about because the only way to connect the staggers is with a normal, which should be recognizable. Most are connected with a Hvy or Medium or throw.
I don’t get everyone’s problems with one chance breaks.
I don’t mind them as long as they don’t do over 30% or something like that. The problem with one chance breaks is that you’re trying to get less risk on your damage and mixup potential, but you’re losing damage in the process. I find it’s often better to go for the risk of longer combos, because that’s damage I won’t need to make up for later.
Now you may say, “You’re going to get combo broken doing that! It’s better to just give them a quick manual and end quick cause one chance vortexes are the game now.”
And to that I say: “Will I?” What people seem to forget is that all combos are in the favor of the offender. On a pure guess, the defender has a 33% chance of getting the break, otherwise they eat 30% extra damage. In contrast, I find that vortexes can be much more finicky with the odds, since your opponent can block correctly and maybe shadow counter, reversal, or whatever to escape your vortex, and now your one chance got you nothing but 20%. But knowing that the defender only has one option, combo breaking, with a 33% chance of success, I feel like it’s better to take the risk of extending my combo a bit longer to give myself an edge.
Whenever I see people doing one chances repeatedly, I never feel like I have to guess break unless they have potential damage stacked on me. Why would I break and risk them reacting to my lockout and getting 40% when I can just take the 20% risk free? I don’t care about 20%. Wait till I open you up with Glacius or Kim and you’ll be eating 70%.
Also, stagger and flipout do nothing to encourage guessing. Stagger is just extended hitstun with the ability to grab from it. And what’s the difference between a mixup after a flipout and a mixup after a knockdown? Besides being faster, nothing.
Well, thats my point exactly. More guessing has been induced. We already have teleport mixups, manuals, characters with extreme mobility overheads… & now we have flip out an stagger on top of all of it… it’s insane. You’re shooting dice in every MU.
Sorry, my bad. Should have been a bit clearer there.
By “these elements” I didn’t mean the mechanical elements of flipout and stagger, but the more esoteric elements of strategy and tech, in reference to:
Stagger is a combo thing though. I mean, if you were caught in a very large hitstun move that wasn’t stagger you would still have the same outcome of a mixup after it if they didn’t want the combo.
On the contrary, stagger does a lot to encourage guessing… Tusk’s stagger ender can resort to a manual, a grab to air impale (Which can be counter broken), reset 50/50 overhead, high, or low, In everyone one of these situations you have to guess… If you lock out… You die…
As I stated… in moderation these mechanics are great, but there are characters in the roster that sprinkle a bit of OPness in they’re game plan.
Wall splats require a bit more intricate timing to mix up in accordance to establishing grounds to reset the opposition; to an extent that you’re actually able to react… which is key. I never said I hated any of the new mechanics… I’m simply expressing how I dislike that they weren’t induced in moderation.
