They are almost certainly not scaling down the number of games. Wizard asked the same question about the 2016 and 2015 lineups, both with the limit of 7 games (iirc,) and both years it was a 9-game lineup.
I’m pretty sure he asks for 7 games because he wants to get an idea of what games matter the most to people. Then again, the game selection has gone against the grain of potential entrant numbers before, so who knows.
Well, if they do limit it to 7, it will be that list I think.
If they do 9, then I can see KI and Marvel getting back in. It would be the same line up as last year except trade Pokken for KOF (and the obvious MKX for Injustice). Maybe the newest Blazblue entry will get in instead of one of those two, depending on how anime they want to go.
I’d expect 8 or 9 games. I thought 7 games sounded silly last year, but this year I’m more confident in just calling Wizard’s bluff outright. I guess it could be 7 if the organizers are looking to solve their organizing and capacity problems by just scrapping games, but I’m going to have a little faith.
That said, I have my doubts about KI making the cut, even with an 8 or 9-game roster. The 7 is obvious:
I could see Mahvel taking slot 8. Maaaaybe KI wriggles in as number 9? I wasn’t aware that Pokken hadn’t managed to stick, otherwise I’d have it on the list. The state of BlazBlue weirded me out when I looked into it (are they updating three separate games?), but maybe that has a shot. Then there are a bunch of games that didn’t make the 2016 lineup that are probably out for that reason (e.g. Uniel), but I’d be giving them another look before locking in KI after the year that KI has had.
I think KI’s bigger problem is the way that the competitive community has behaved over the past 9 months. I feel like the players squandered a season designed to draw players in from all over the FGC: the devs put SFIV Gief into the game, they put in a character seemingly made for UltraDavid, they brought in a bunch of guests, they weakened the series’ iconic breaker system and toned down a lot of crazy stuff in the rebalance, they even made a ■■■■■■■ incredible PC port. There was a lot of enthusiasm surrounding the game, and then it all went to hell fast, and I think people considering playing the game caught this blizzard of hearsay coming from the competitive players and turned away. Those players had a bunch of on-average semirational nitpicks, and they managed to dig their heels in and make a big ■■■■ deal over those nitpicks and destroy the game’s momentum over them.
Even if the recent breaker change has changed the sentiment among the competitive players, I don’t really see enough vitality surrounding the game to make it stand out for selection in the biggest FGC event of the year, with limited spots that are always hotly contested. The KI community had a chance to build up into something significant and I think they blew it.
however you all feel about KI making it or not is fine, but did everyone freaking tweet @MrWiz already and tell him you want KI there???
My guess is that’s it’s “we’ll take your feedback on the first seven and then go with our gut on games eight and nine” perhaps?
Still, if it winds up being seven, and two of them are Smash, I’m sorry, money or not, that’s still straight trash. Again, I get that EVO’s not put on as a feel-good event. But there has to be some better variety than that, right?
I’d guess:
SFV
Melee
GG Xrd
Injustice 2
KI
Tekken 7
KOF XIV
If it goes up to nine, I’d add UMVC3, and Smash 4. To me, that seems like a very solid, well rounded group. If people think that a whole season of characters isn’t enough to keep KI in, then I’d be okay with another Fighter replacing it so long as the variety is still good.
Just my opinion though. 
I think these will make it:
Street Fighter V
King of Fighters XIV
GG Xrd Rev
Blazblue Central Fiction
Tekken 7
Killer Instinct
UMvC 3
We all know Smash (Melee/4) will be there. E Z MONAAY
Would like to see Pokken and Jojo (Dreamcast) but one could hope for a classic at EVO
I think the point is that each of the Smash games probably brings a good 800+ unique players (as well as an overlap bigger than KI’s player turnout), they both command high viewer counts, and with that many players acknowledging the differences between the two titles it’s difficult to justify scrapping either one of them. Money aside, I think it’s about supporting two big community pillars. The roster limit makes it seem hard to justify because everyone wants their game to make it, but I think it makes sense for them to run both Smash games separate from any imposed limits on the roster, i.e. Joey should’ve just said “Melee, Smash 4 and 5 others” to skirt around this kind of objection. Certainly if 9 games made it onto the list and, say, Smash 4 didn’t, I think it’d then make sense to run 10 games, Smash 4 being the 10th.
Also, both communities for both Smash games think their game is the best thing ever made. They fully support the game with hype and excitement wherever it goes, rarely complain about stuff (despite there being lots to complain about), and despite being a fairly awkward fit alongside the FGC at times, their enthusiasm for the game, both good and bad, really shows. Doesn’t really feel like it’s the case for most of the tournament crowd of KI, and those that are part of the problem will always shift the blame to someone or something else.
Not that I think Wizard knows or cares about KI community drama, but I do think he looks at the enthusiasm the Smash scenes have at all times and thinks that it’s a good thing to have at his event.
@HexShark @FengShuiEnergy EVO Japan is supposedly happening January 2018. I don’t expect KI at EVO Japan either. Sadly, I am forced to learn KoF 14, Guilty or SFV like the rest of the KI Community in Japan if we hope to attend EVO JPN.
Fair points from the both of you, no question. Both versions of Smash are well supported by large, enthusiastic communities and I honestly don’t mean to bag on them or their games. My apologies in advance if I say anything below that runs counter to this, as it’s really not my intention.
But should fan support be that determinative where it comes to the biggest fighting game showcase of the year if it leads to results like this? Shouldn’t other things factor in as well such as (assumed but not official) roster scarcity, variety, and age?
I mean, let’s not forget that while this is a tournament for tourney players, tourney fans and those that I guess you could call more hardcore genre enthusiasts, it’s also the biggest genre showcase of the year. The time when the whole genre gets more press coverage, announcements are made, and far more eyes than normal are on the tourney scene.
I get that it’s not EVO’s job to prop up less popular games and really, I’m not coming at this from a KI fan perspective. I enjoy season 3 just as I enjoyed the first two seasons, but we’re not a huge group, even if we seemingly continue to grow and truth be told, watching certain games try to stand on their tippy toes while those in the FGC pick their games to love and snicker at has never been a desire of mine and that dates all the way back to the original Mortal Kombat days. I’m used to it. It’s rather depressing, but I’ve made my peace with it as far as how the larger community can work at times.
I just don’t overly love the idea (or the optics) of the biggest spotlight on the genre that we get all year involving “hey, come see how relevant we are as a genre by watching people play this really old game from two console generations ago.”
If there are only seven slots, which is obviously debatable, we’re talking about filling two of those seven with two entries for the same series (regardless of how different they may be), one of which is fifteen year old.
If your tournament is going to be rather limited in the number of games, at what point do you say “okay, people still love Melee and that’s great, we can still feature it somehow along with other legacy titles and make sure to feature it prominently in that regard, but we have a limited amount of space, so perhaps we should put the spotlight on something newer to show people watching what else is going on in the genre these days” as opposed to putting such an old game front and center?
Do I think age, scarcity and variety would realistically outweigh the points you guys brought up? No. I don’t. But as a genre fan that likes just about everything the genre has to offer, I’d personally like to see more than just Smash, more Smash, some Capcom games and a few new titles sprinkled here and there, but that’s just me. I know that’s not how tournaments work and I know that money is a huge factor.
Hopefully this is all moot though, and they’ll have more games.
There’s no hard evidence of the voice actor strike affecting Injustice. Also, Microsoft just changed the release date on their site to March 28. Nothing official from WB yet, though.
Not showing anything for some time could have been them holding off until the models were more polished. There was a lot of harsh negative feedback about the face models early on.
Sadly, I don’t see KI making it, but that seems related to greater community support/enthusiasm that many of the other games have.
On a whole I agree with @Infilament 's sentiment as far as community enthusiasm goes, as well as what @fnrslvr said about player numbers. I do think it’s worth noting, though, that smash isn’t backed by publisher support at tournaments. Whether or not that’s ever going to affect the evo lineup remains to be seen, but when everything else is getting some cash kicked in, it must be a factor on some level.
The only reason KI was at the last Two EVO’s was because “it had support” according to Joey thanks to the new Seasons. Seeing as how KI has had no real support this time around, excluding the three new remix characters, KI is stagnant at this point and has had more people leave the community than join it.
My prediction
SFV
Smash
Other Smash or Mahvel
Tekken
Injustice/MKX
Guilty Gear
KoF/BBCF
Unless Joey does some exciting “there’s more” moment I don’t think KI will be back.
Oh, I think dev support should have a big impact. Hell, I think NRS, IG and Lab Zero should get their games in automatically, because they’re US devs who are willing to continue to produce games in the godforsaken fighting game genre, and they all provide some combination of pot money and/or dev/community interaction. As the premier fighting game tournament, I think Evo should support the continuation of the genre, at the least so that the genre can continue to support Evo.
But being real, both Smashes belong on the roster.
Also, I think Nintendo is coming around on competitive Smash. Maybe they’ll never offer pot bonuses, but any involvement from Nintendo at all could potentially be worth more than pot bonuses from fighting game devs whose influence largely ends at the bounds of the FGC.
Can you provide proof to backup this statement? My guess is, no, you can’t.
Just look at the faces of KI pro players. But I guess it’s simple to dismiss something you don’t want to hear.
KI pro players do not consist of the majority of players…
Just Sayin’.
Not to get mired in your debate here, but you are talking about Evo, a premier fighting game tournament that prooooobably cares about the number of active competitive players a game has.
Yeah, but 1 tournament event (even the biggest one) isn’t going to spell doom for a franchise simply because fewer people showed up to the event. There are far too many factors to consider.
Again, I think you’re mistaking the “is KI going to get into Evo” thread for the “is KI dead” thread. (Which, by the by, I think is another active thread that actually currently exists, because of course it does.)