@Iago407@xCrimsonLegendx
I know you two have already been considering this, but please take it to PM’s. I made this thread to discuss gameplay, and specifically stated in the OP that I want to avoid any other sorts of discussion that don’t directly effect it.
If you’re going to talk about ideas for the gameplay Eagle might have, please do. If you want to discuss anything else, take it somewhere else.
Now, back to gameplay.
We’ve had ideas thrown around for a Shago style character that uses the gameplay of a base character and jumps off.
We’ve had people express that they’d want the character to have a completely unique move-set without any derivatives, which is also a valid request.
Then Adam came in and introduced the possibility that Eagle is no longer what they may seem, and the entity Glacius retrieved may be vastly different, with Vlad implying he’s “rushdown Glacius” from the poll.
I’ve been doing some thinking about potential gameplans for Eagle and suddenly it hit me:
When @TempusChaoti posed the question “what did they find?” I began thinking of ways this could apply outside the box of what we’re thinking for characters.
Eagle being locked up in an Ultratech facility can’t have been a pleasant existence. Fed through tubes and kept in stasis as his brain is warped and replicated as the AI for a killing machine, seemingly doomed to suffer at the hands of these people for the rest of my life.
His spirit would grow restless, as his body craves freedom, his tongue seeks for real food, and his faith in his fellow man degrades. Eventually, he breaks down, and goes forth with inhuman determination, seeking to fulfill his wander lust, the satisfy his hunger, to attain vengeance against those who had brought him such unbearable suffering…
Kinda like a wendigo…
This could open up a ton of interesting avenues in story telling, and it would add depth to what we consider the game plan. For example, rushdown-Glacius may share a similar combat style, but not necessarily appearance (much like Sharkman TJ).
Let’s think of how “Kelvin” could fit this Wendigo’d Eagle… A charge akin to cold shoulder, long lanky limbs to imitate ice lance and the jump kicks, and a tool kit that befits Glacius style up-close pressure to an enhanced degree.
That sort of game plan could work well with a lanky creature amalgamated from hate and the stench of death, or a lost spirit engulfed in rage to the Nth degree.
I made a post time ago about how could be his gameplay:
Gonna copy paste it here to mantain the discuss here
Bionic-Spiritual brawler
Arquetype: Aerial Grappler-Ground brawler
Eagle was an exceptional warrior prior being held captive by Ultratech. He excells both in wrestling and boxing. Since he was captured and Ultratech experimented with him in order to learn how to create “Arianna”, a human vessel for Aria, they implanted mechanical augmentations and experimented with Glacius DNA on him. As a “perfect human specimen”, unlike Cinder or Arianna’s project clones, his body doesn’t rejects Glacius’ DNA, so he doesn’t mutate into abominations. Using his warrior skills, his spirital connection to his weyekin(the Eagle), bionic augmentations, and DNA modification, Eagle is the definitive warrior.
Appareance: Eagle has bionic augmentations for some parts of his body, like his feets and hands. These are not fully replaced limbs, he has metallic parts in his knuckles for example. His stance it’s similar to Nash, from SFV. His long hair covers part of his face, similar to Hisako. He has holes in his skin, and sometimes they pour steam smoke from them. A pair of wires are hanging from his back.
Ground movement: Average-low walkspeed, good backdash(not as good, but similar to Cinder’s), long reaching but somewat slow forward dash(good for getting close against knocked down opponents, but unsafe against an already standing character), can be cancelled into jump(similar to Maya).
Jumping: He has a jumping arc similar to Jago.
Normals to watch:
Eagle punch normals have great range and are pretty safe, being his forward HP a “grab”. It works as a normal hit, it’s blockable, but if it connects, Eagle deals a second hit, staggering the opponent. Only does this against grounded characters. His kicks are better suited for anti airing, being HK a very angled up kick which launches, potentially leading to an air combo. His low attacks doesn’t have much range.
His jumping attacks have all great hitbox and have a lot active frames, but have better hitbox for air to air situations than air to ground. Mk its his cross up attack of choice.
Regular throw: Eagle performs a spinebuster
Back throw: Performs a lariat similar to Hugo’s, then he does an elbow drop over the knocked opponent
Specials:
Imperial Drop: Command grab. Differents effects with different buttons.
-LP is his normal command grab. Similar to Thunder’ M call of the earth in terms of range and speed. Performs a power drop.
-M version its a ground to air grab, similar to Mira’s. Jumps a bit, grabs the opponent, and performs a piledriver.
-H version its also a ground to air grab, but Eagle stays grounded, grabs the opponent, slams him in the ground, and launches him again to the air. Eagle can jump for an air combo, similar to Sadira after her regular throw. Deals minor damage.
-Shadow version: enhanced L version. More range and damage, causes hard knockdown, 3 frame throw, can work as reversal, invulnerable until recovery, similar to Omen’s Demonic despair in terms of invulnerability. It’s his better wake up option, but loses to airborne or throw invulnerable opponents, and needs meter.
Air imperial drop: Air version of the previous grab. Varies depending of the button pressed:
L-Performs a piledriver and causes knockdown. If performed following a breakable hit, cashes potential damage.
M-Recapture. Gets the opponent to the ground and can be continued with a combo.
H-Grabs the opponent and takes it to the ground. Eagle then sits over him. He can then use all his punch buttons to hit the opponent, similar to Gargos devil divide. Doesn’t cash out potential damage, but each aditional hit deals good damage. If 3 are landed, causes hard knockdown, otherwise soft knockdown.
-shadow: enhanced L version. Omega ender: its his most damaging attack. Has really good range and its very hard to hit him out of it. Deals a lot of damage in a combo, but its damage its insane out of it. Similar to Kim’s dragon kick second hit without the first.
Eagle’s talon: long range special, wind kick style. Combo starter and carry linker. Wall splat ender. Hits overhead. M and H are unsafe. Jumps a long but low jump hitting with his arms.
Air Eagle’s talon: air only. L angles down-forward, m travells straight forward, H up-forward. Can be canceled into Spiritual Flight on hit or block.
Thousand needles: Eagle unleash a flurry of fast punches, similar to Dudley’s machinegun blow. Eagle doesn’t move from where he is. Very similar to Omen’s flurry kicks, but with his fists. Shadow version hits 10 times, but if one button it’s held, Eagle will delay the hit, similar to Hisako’s combo trait. Useful to fish lockouts. Damage linker, launcher ender.
Call of the ancestors(3P): Similar to Thunder’s CoTS, Eagle infuses hiself with the power of his weyekin. This allows him to do a single 8 direction dash in the air called “Spiritual flight”. The dash can be done after an air attack(on hit or block), and after the dash, he can do another attack/special. This allows him to do “air combos”. He can store 2 of these, represented as wind around his body. With 2, the wind it’s bigger.
Example of a combo with 2 charges against an airborne opponent:
J.HK->Spiritual flight->J.Mp xx H Eagle’s talon->Spiritual flight->J.Mk xx Imperial Drop
Instinct: Eagle has two instincts instead of one! But he only can use one at time, depending of when he uses it.
-If he activates instinct while airborne, he is infused by his weyekin. He can perform up to 3 Spiritual flights in a row, recovering all of them once he lands. This can lead to scary and long air combos, and great mobility. This instinct it’s clearly suited for offensive approach
-If he activates instinct while grounded, his bionic augmentations gets an overcharge, and his DNA modifications with Glacius DNA appears. Glacius could control ice and water, Cinder fire, and Eagle electricity. He speeds up his walkspeed, and he gets a new attack:
Overcharge(3k): Eagle begins to generate electric waves from his body, similar to Blanka from SF series. It works as reversal, antiair, and wins against almost any normal attack. Safe on block, can be held to generate a bigger electric pulse, otherwise has poor range.
If he activates instinct while airborne, he has better offensive tools, and if he activates it grounded, he get’s better defensive tools.
Gameplan:
Eagle has great control of the air in front of him, with two command grabs leading to damage or a combo oportunity, and great air to air tools. He can deal great amounts of damage easily in these situations, and has great preassure in close quarters thanks to a fast multi hitting special, a command grab, and an overhead. In his optimal spot, staying grounded it’s a fast way to get grabbed, and jumping it’s very risky. A good use of Call of the ancestors can lead to hard to break air combos, and having two different instincts gives him more tools to face each situation.
Still, Eagle has weakness. Albeit he can control very well the space in front of him, he struggles when the rival it’s over his head. His anti airs doesn’t cover that position, and his wake up options are not great. He needs meter or grounded instinct to defend himself properly, and he is somewat weak to zoning. Characters like Glacius or Kan-Ra are really hard to get in
Just at least give Eagle a “phoenix” projectile with 3 different variants that either works like S1 Fulgore’s laser or Fulgore’s regular projectile. Give him a unique meter that could work something like Fulgore’s pip meter, but to a lesser degree… Lastly, give him classic Thunder’s dp move, so that it totally doesn’t function as a dp, but does still have a purpose as-- a combo ender or a whiff punish move…
Those are my requests… I can’t wait to see this guy in action…
Because it’s off topic. This is a thread about gameplay for Eagle. Anything posted that is not discussing this topic should be discussed in a different thread.
I’m pretty positive that Eagle is going to be a thing and I’m sure whatever they choose to do with him will be fantastic, blowing all of us out of the water.
I just hope he retains something from Fulgore, please.
Reviving this thread because game play discussion is important, and with the final survey results finally in our hands, it once again solidifies Eagle’s likelihood of appearing.
I still stand that hybridizing Thunder and Fulgore would be a really good place to start, and the suggestion I made in the OP still sounds cool in my entirely biased opinion. But the reason I made this thread was to collect ideas from you guys. Let’s keep the discussion going!
Glad to see this topic again! It’s funny that inadvertently took the style I suggested above for Shorchid (or Nightshade,ins perfect world ). Guess I just want to see a sword whip in KI!
Anyways, I’ve thought on this a bit more and here’s where I’m at…
I personally think that while Eagle should tie into Fulgore in some respects given that he technically inspired him, I really don’t know how good I’d feel about a long awaited character making his first playable appearance in the series to involve a good deal of overlap with other characters.
I mean sure, storywise, his plot line should absolutely involve Thunder, Fulgore, and perhaps ARIA as well, though he should also have his own central motivations that propel him forward too.
But the last thing I want is for Eagle to be seen as getting some type of bonus character / “inspired by characters X and Y” treatment and too much influence from a few other characters might increase that risk.
I’d still like to see him as a brainwashed Ultratech suit. Black ponytail as a kind of nod to Fulgore’s plume (on the back of his head, obviously, not where Fulgore’s is at). Sunglasses… A sort of emotionless, yet cooler Agent Smith with a sort of Geese Howard vibe, if that makes any sense. Strong, but not “the muscle,” with more of a dominating, imposing, let’s call it “evil executive level” presence.
So with that in mind, maybe Eagle could be a puppeteer archetype? Maybe he has his own unique Fulgore unit that his different moves from regular Fulgore and you can control both Eagle and this, let’s say “personally altered” Fulgore. Or it could be a different type of machine. Something entirely new.
If not puppeteer, what other kinds of moves or archetypes could Eagle have?
Re-reading the novella, it says Eagle was a wrestler and amature boxer and that his brother saw similarities with Fulgore’s fighting style.
It also says nothing of his vision quest or weyekin spirit guide. I would love for those to be revealed if Eagle is ever released as a playable character - perhaps both were suppressed by Ultratech’s interference and he fights with renewed purpose and vigor - an awakening, of sorts. I think he should share similar normals to Fulgore, while also having new moves of his own. Perhaps even his brother’s old projectile attack.
I like the ponytail idea.
Having been “plugged in” maybe they could take The Matrix route - he is key to a perfect cross between the technical and natural worlds.
Curious how you’d like to see that utilized in KI’s story. Could you expand on that a bit? I like the idea in theory, just wondering how you’d like to see it applied in practice. Not sure if I’m coming off rhetorical at all here but that’s 100% not my intention. I like the idea!
I stopped reading the novellas so that I could kina get all the information at once instead of when the chapters were being released, so either I forgot that Eagle had the wrestling / boxing background or I simply didn’t know.
Either way, I think it’d be kind of a cool juxtaposition to have this executive looking Ultratech suit also be this powerful grappler. I don’t think I’d want him to be massive, with muscles on top of muscles like many wrestler characters are depicted. He should look fit, and imposing sure, but he should have traps like Thunder has or be Aganos’ size or whatever lol.
But yeah, I’m also wondering now if he’s a wrestler like Dan Gable (Olympic style or Greco roman) or are we talking The Rock, Triple H or King from Tekken or Wolf from Virtua Fighter type of wrestling?
If it’s the former, then I think that’d be awesome. I’d like to see a judo / wrestler type like Goh in VF (only a bit more exciting), someone that can actually take the opponent to the ground an actually do autos on a grounded opponent as part of their repertoire, utilize joint locks, etc.
If it’s the latter, I’d honestly be a bit surprised. Putting boxing and wrestling together to me implies “amateur fighter” and not “pro wrestler.” But that’s just me. I always tend to enjoy pro wrestler types of characters in fighting games. King, Wolf, El Blaze (if we’re talking luchador style), etc. Would that fit well in KI? Tough to say. I think they could make it fun and interesting, but these characters also tend to have a LOT of throws, not just two or three like KI’s grappler types tend to get.
So I guess it just depends on how their moves could be presented. Perhaps, like the amateur style I mentioned above, they could utilize throws that allow for breakable autos on top of regular command grabs, maybe combination throws (like King) that are, themselves breakable.
Either way, as much as I’ve grown to like Raam recently, I still find his throws to be among the less compelling grappler throws from a purely fun, visual flair perspective. I mean, they fit him, and obviously they can’t make him do piledrivers and power bombs, and I wouldn’t want that for him, so I think they’re a tad bit limited to begin with given the character. But everything just sort of feels like “grab n stab.”
I’d like to see a grappler that has a bit more flair, and the boxing style, combined with a technical grappling perspective could make for a fun play style. I’d picture him to be less like TJ and have more of a bare knuckle, brutal style to go with the joint locks, grounded autos type. I think that could be a pretty awesome style for Eagle!
I really only have one suggestion and that is to bring back Thunders fireball with Eagle, have him summon an Eagle shaped projectile would be awesome and would explain why Fulgore does it. But like everyone else I think it should be a mix and match of Fulgore and Thunder, I just really liked how Shadow Jago got Jagos old slide and hope we can get the same treatment for other old moves and think this is a good way to include it.
I’ve been thinking about the Wrestler/Boxer idea here for Eagle. Here it goes:
What if Eagle had catch throws that linked with other command throws? Still following the KI combo system, imagine a 46+P (or 236+P) move that is a hit/punch that leads to a throw, and if desired, the player could use another input to link another throw. The link would be breakable though, however, Eagle should have other throw options that are equally breakable.
The auto doubles can change in animation because Eagle would still be “holding” the opponent, but they would still be following the KI combo system/breaker rules. So essentially, Eagle would have 2 types of ADs based on whether he grabbed the opponent or not.
The boxing aspect would be a lesser version of TJ Combo’s, where Eagle’s attacks are slightly less damaging, unique in animation, but give better options to compensate for damage.
How would throwing in a “sway” option fair out? Like imagine a high/low sway option that allowed for either an attack into a combo, or a positional change from left to right, similar to Thunder’s left/right throw.
I’m tossing ideas around. Please share your thoughts on this. They’re very much appreciated.
