Sitting here fighting anything above Hard basically means you’re playing the waiting game for the AI to slip up and you can get a counter-hit or a punish. Attempting to attack just about never works. Mixups? Block every single thing thrown at them. Grabs? Counter-grab consistently no matter what. It’s especially irritating when you do any kind of forward-rushing move with a character, as they’ll just grab you out of it just about every time.
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Honestly I don’t think the reading would be all that bad if they could add in a delay from the AI deciding to perform an action & it actually doing something that would approximate an average human’s reaction time.
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This is just how FG AIs work. If you are frustrated, just play on normal.
This is why people want Shadow AI in all the single player modes.
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I do, I switch between Normal (For my newer characters amd grinding) and Challenging (For my higher level characters)
Still frustrating.
This alone wouldn’t work out, because competent play in lieu of millisecond reactions requires the player to make reasonable guesses about what is going to happen and what strategies suit the situation. An AI opponent fitting your suggested approach would just get dunked by everything.
It isn’t a very easy problem to deal with, but IG’s approach to it with Shadows seems like a pretty neat solution.
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Personally I liked getting wrecked by a cheap (but fair AI). KI’s AI is reading you, but once you understand it’s reads and reactions you’ll suddenly be opened up to a whole new world of tech to combat it, which will only make you a stronger player in the long run.
KI’s AI may seam cheap, but it’s a lot fairer than a lot of other fighting game AI’s… Just try SFV… Characters can go into to their back charge moves while walking forward, random attacks become unblockable for no reason, and characters can magically anti-air you straight into ground combos… SFV cheats the entire game engine to give the illusion of difficulty, while everything in KI seems well within reason to me.
Whats funny is trying to use Demonic despair to the AI. they will jump out of it every time no matter how quickly you activate it in a reset ect…
Even on easy the AI will jump out of it!
Trying to use Kryll Rush in neutral is a free grab for them, it’s ridiculous. And I thought Shadow Kryll Rush was grab invincible?
Jumping out of despair isn’t hard from block stun. There are setups for it. Until they made invincible, I was never hit by it in any mode. It isn’t like Thunder’s where it starts on frame 0. Land towards HP into despair. It works pretty reliably. I don’t main Omen so I don’t know all of them but since S3 he is soo much better, you don’t need it.
Ai have been doing ridiculous things for a long time. Grabbing TJ’s power line since S2. Anti air Jab juggle combo into 40% damage. Beating an AI is understanding when they attack. Don’t use multi hits when they have meter. Throwing isn’t really an option unless as a punish. Much like getting good online in ranked, beating the AI isn’t a cake walk. There are ways to cheese them but as I’ve said since S1 when Shago was found, you cannot beat him playing KI normally. He is near perfect. You have to find a way around their near perfect play.
I didnt say it wasnt … I said the AI jumps out of it…the AI reads your command and jumps out of it every time. Which is what this topic is about…the AI reading your moves.
I know how to use it…no issue there. Im just saying the AI reads your moves and DD is one of the ones they are best at reading.
Jumping out of it is easy though. If you haven’t pressed anything, you can hold up during the startup animation and jump out of it. It isn’t about reading inputs, anyone can do that. You’d have to look up frame data on it but, I don’t think there are any 100% guaranteed situations to land it other than corner throw, instinct cancel, demonic despair. Even that might not be guaranteed but who knows.
Dude… we arent talking about people! We are talking about the AI reading inputs. I just happened to mention that the AI likes to read DD and jump out of it.
Its not a big deal…lol its not a debate. I dont have any issue landing this move on a human or jumping out of it my self. Im just saying the AI on easy will read it everytime and jump out.
This is another case of “everything I had to add has been said, so I’m gonna respond to later posts”… though, day 1 SL Gargos aside, I really don’t think the KI AI is remotely as cheap as some it’s competitors and predecessors. @DefiledInBile has a good example with SF, chargeless charge moves, and miracle AA>ground combo shenanigans. At least the KI AI plays by the same rules as the player.
@FallofSeraphs76 have you tried flipout>Despair on the AI? I haven’t played Omen against the AI since I first got the game and was learning how combos work, but when I tried my hand at SL I noticed the AI was pretty abusable with RAAM’s flipout>Grab, so I figured it’d be worth asking. Granted, the startup on RAAM’s Grab is 4f and Despair is like… a whole second, so I wouldn’t be surprised to find it doesn’t work.
Yeah, the AI knows everything you’re doing before it animates… but it’s weird the stuff it chooses not to react to. It CAN jump out of every single non-staggered command grab, but it gets hit by flipout>Grab umpteen times before it jumps once. Weird.
EDIT: Soz, didn’t mean to reply directly to Seraphs. Hit the wrong ‘reply’ button, I guess. Whoops.
I know right?/ They will stand there and take a boot to the face but try a DD or annihilation and they jump before it begins! lol
I haven’t tried flip out to DD but Ive heard of ppl saying they have landed it and how epic it was. I dont use DD much unless im toying around with someone…or unless Im a wounded dog and have no options but DD. Ill give it a go though…see if I can pull it off.
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Against a human opponent, I hear that! I don’t even try for flipout>DD against humans, I just assume they’ll tap up somewhere in that eternity of startup. I do like catching EX Windkicks (and it’s ilk) with it though. The invincibility is sick! But trying to set up into it? Only as a last second panic button that usually costs me the round/match anyway… I just figure if it’s EVER gonna work on the AI, it’d be after a flipout. Flipout seems to bonk the AI on the noggin.
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I know it isn’t a debate, I was trying to clarify that the AI jumping to it isn’t all that impressive. Them grabbing a power line is 1-2 frames which is inhuman. Jumping on reaction to Demonic Despair is like 20-30 frames total frameStop+Startup. Now, AI Jago, Dping my wakeup Dp, that’s button reading. I apologize if I wasn’t clear enough in my description but as the other said, Flip Out into DD is pretty effective I’ve seen.
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Un-human reflexes? Ummmmmm you can easily throw her out of it on reaction at point blank range after the freeze. It’s not hard.
All one has to do is just smoother the AI in plus frames and you’re set. Been doing that since the beginning with ARIA. EA works like a charm. There’s little to any retaliation.
Throw is 4 frames, if they buffer it, unless it is throw invulnerable, or starts up in less than 4 frames like Thunder’s shadow grab, throw almost always wins. Shadow knee from Aria has a long startup, I think it is like 10+ frames? She slides before the first attack happens. So if the opponent isn’t in a true block string, you can be thrown everytime if they haven’t pressed buttons. This goes for all non invincible, non throw invincible shadow moves with more than 4 frames startup.
SSB is a 10frame startup. Upper body and projectile invincible as well. If you’re in the neutral and haven’t pressed a button you can hit her out of it with something as slow as 8 frames. It’s -9 on block however there is ALOT of blockstun on it. Throws are 5 frames.
The only time you should be using SSB on wakeup is when someone’s using projectiles (or you sense one’s coming).