Well I meant without just blindly raging at the devs in hopes of coercing them into changing it. xP
Yeah, I donât do blind rage. Only the most calm and rational discussions for me!
<whistles and slowly walks away>
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Less moralizing, more tech.
@Infilament What if the Glacius players uses instinct meter instead of Shadow Meter to get out of the Shower. Right After blocking S.DP you can Instinct cancel and Enhance Liquidize toward Eyedol.
Fantastic write up, thanks for taking the time to research and report.
That being said it does feel like the move is a little too good, but that can be said about quite a few things in the game.
Sure, you can do this, but you canât hit Eyedol with anything. Similarly, Spinal and Fulgore can teleport out of the way but they donât really get anything off of it.
Any time you cross Eyedol up as your escape, Eyedol recovers so fast that he just blocks anything you try. You can do no real mixup except try to throw him, because the meteors will just hit you if you land a hit and try to do any combo. And if all you can do is throw him, then you might as well try to throw him as a strict punish in the first place (but this requires point blank spacing, which you might not have).
Itâs why the move is so strong.
I had no idea it was that strong. I didnât even see if Spinal can Teleport Fierce SoulSword cancel, and your saying Eyedol blocks everything? smh
I guess the balance this out is to make Eyedol fly up higher so he has to actually land, not taking away his ability to combo after this move, but atleast giving time to punish if you baited it correctly.
Hmmmmmm, guess itâs time to lab up some more tomorrow. This sounds like a case of ânot doing damage,â but rahter âwaste resources and instinct timeâ.
Iâll probably not go for combo damage. Just a simple counter to the dp itself and burn time.
Spinal can almost not do RAW shadow shoulder charge. Reversal works, but if youâre like⊠3 or 4 frames late, Eyedol is already blocking.
I didnât test it, but I really, really doubt heâll have time to teleport and then cancel into any shadow move. That ends up being a lot slower than the startup of raw shadow shoulder.
(EDIT - Just tested it, Eyedol is already blocking before Spinal even enters the ground fully for his first teleport. If you try to cancel into any special or shadow move on the other side, Eyedol has been blocking for like 15-20 frames already)
The red flags I have with this move are not that he gets a combo, yeah. Itâs how difficult it is to bait and punish. Even if you know the correct punishes in your head, the timing is very missable during real matches. If the devs decide to tweak this move, I think there are some easy ways to do it without taking away the reward Eyedol gets from successfully landing it, and Eyedol will still be very strong. But Iâll leave that decision up to them.
I noticed that last night after fighting a few Eyedols. I KNOW the move is coming. Iâm prepared for it, and yet I still get hammered.
Iâm also not a fan of his jumping HP. It has god-like range and it is MUCH faster than Aganos.
I feel that tweaking is in the works. 
Itâs not just faster than Aganos, it suspends you more. Aganos has a ground bounce almost for no reason. Eyedolâs is 100% follow-up-able with the only boundaries being your imagination.
I see what your saying⊠that Aganos needs a better bounce factor!
His is pretty tough to follow-up on. I can never seem to land anything other than cr.LPxRoll. I could have terrible timing.
Well, on wakeup you could always counter his shadow dp with your own. Youâll hit him before the meteors come out or the very least trade with him (one hit for one hit).
ARIA counters midscreen
Booster body: Shadow crescendo (pushes you way past the meteors and if for some reason youâre a little late armor is there to help), heavy cresendo (if youâre paying attention you can blast through his dp with your own since it has more I-frames, however you need to be point blank range use with caution)
Blade body: dp during screen freeze to trade with his (hey itâs better then nothing), shadow dp
Bass body: dash towards youâll be left at +2 if done as reversal timing so you can opt to go for a throw here, if he techs youâll be thrown back into the meteors (only 3 should need to be blocked though)
Bass body has it the worst, but itâs better then nothing.
All body counters: requires 1 bar of SM
cr.mp/cr.mk/cr.hp xx into SSG, completely avoids all the meteors and gets ARIA a free combo.
The only way to stop this in the corner (unless you smack him outta his dp with something of your own before the metoers hit) however is to throw. Doing the backthrow avoids everything and you still get your mixup.
For other characters, regarding post freeze stuff. If youâre going to dp him to beat out or trade with him then do either light, meduim or shadow dpâs. Shadowâs beat it clean, lights and medium will trade (but hey it costs you no meter, no meteors and itâs reset back to neutral)
Interesting, I guess I was very slightly mistiming my attempts to do medium normals canceled into shadow moves. I went back and tried with Jago and was able to do crouching MK xx shadow wind kick, although the meteor was literally on top of my hitbox when shadow wind kick came out, so Iâm guessing that for most medium normals, you must be absolutely reversal (without an input buffer?) and itâs still very easy to miss. Aria being able to cancel a heavy is really crazy, but I did verify itâs possible. Must be something about the hitbox for her heavy letting her dodge the meteors. Maybe some other characters have this property too but would require specific testing, and you still have to be reversal and point blank.
Still though, good to know itâs possible if youâre willing to take the risk and everything lines up for you.
ARIA is the key to success. Just another reason to love her.
But yes, itâs possible with crouching attacks (at least so far with ARIA). Because (as Iâm sure youâve seen already) right when you cancel say cr.hp into SSG you can see the meteor just a pixel away from hitting you.
I have however not tested this at beyond point blank range yet. It should work a little far off because (with perfect timing) It still should connect at the same speed and still be eligible to cancel on time. Iâll look into it though.
For glacius mains, blocking his dp then doing puddle punch wonât work. Youâll need either infilâs meter punishes OR you use light puddle punch during his screen freeze to dodge the dp and smack him outta the air with no meteors to bother you. This can be done from a little further away as well no need to be point blank for this either.
Iâm going through each character as I type this to see.
Actually speaking of hitboxesâŠyou said that bigger characters have less time to act right due to the meteors hitting them earlierâŠso I wonderâŠdoes this mean in a crouching state since youâre closer to the ground the meteors take longer to hit you. so this could mean that canceling a crouching normal into a projectile invincible (or armored move it it goes fast enough like shadow crescendo) meaning that you can get past this little obstacle?
You can get the cancel for Aria when you arenât point blank, thatâs not the problem⊠the problem is that itâs very easy for shadow shotgun to get hit by the meteors if you are slightly out from point blank. Thereâs a bit of a spacing AND a timing thing going on here (ie, if you cancel a normal into shadow shotgun, your shotgun starts at a different time than it would if you had done it as the reversal, so it interacts with the meteors differently), but I found it was unreliable to dodge the meteors unless you were pretty close to Eyedol when you blocked the DP.
Yes, if you crouch, you will have slightly more frames (maybe like 1 or 2?) to get your normal xx shadow move off. I still thought it was pretty much impossible for most characters though, because heavies are a lot slower and often raise your hitbox when you press them (ie, Jago crouch HP). Maybe some isolated characters like Aria (or Wulf or something?) itâs possible, though.
Hmmmm Iâll have to look into it then. But Iâm just glad itâs a solution to a problem.
So I just tried from a distance with sadira. It worked
I blocked the dp (at a range) then did cr.mk xx shadow demon blade and the meteor was in my body but I dodged it and got the combo.
In the dp trading case, for example, since it cancels out his dp along with yours generally the trade is in your favor (a single hit form eyedolâs dp does 20 dmg. Even with counterhit it doesnât get a damage increase) as most light dpâs 32 damage that trade is nice (not the best but it works for no meter stuff).
Omen can use regular slide after blockingâŠhoweverâŠif you try to follow up with a combo youâll get smacked by metoers unless itâs a shadow slide.
Pretty sure that in this instance, Hisako is the key to success 
Sako donât bother blocking shadows! 
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Well ARIA doesnât have to block either. Itâs just another option she has. ActuallyâŠhmmmmmmmm there might be something else there for ARIAâŠgimme a few minutesâŠ