Wait you can do that!? I thought I had to wait til the full animation.
I wouldnāt agree completely unless he goes on a long pressure spree.
2 Likes
Iām a little confused by your phrasingā¦ Are you saying āYes, DP to Air Laser should stayā or āNo, DP to Air Laser should goā?
Leave his pip cancels alone because itās his trait.
Remove yolo DP into eye lazer.
Not really unless he goes full rushdown which IMO is not the best way to play him. Otherwise heās often starving for meter.
I see otherwise.
Oh, okay. I get it. Thanks for clarifying. Couple questions though (Iām not terribly familiar with Fulgore, so forgive my ignorance):
Does DPxAir Laser also cost a pip, in addition to itās EX cost?
Would it be so bad if the advantage were reduced to even or minus?
What if the spin speed reduction was more dramatic?
Essentially, could there be a way to keep DPxAir Laser but make itā¦ for lack of a better word, fair? I just think that, if any shoto is making DP safe with EX, it should be the big-bad omni-tool bot. Iām not saying yay or nay in either direction, just making conversation.
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Ok thereās that, but my concern still isnāt answered about what value is there to use shadow air laser in neutral. Just feels like a waste of meter in the long term when compared to his ground shadow laser if you ask me.
No, just the 4 pips.
If you make the cancel -10 or something, then youāve effectively removed it from the game (because no one will do it). So itās kind of the same thing. It probably should not be +8 (I just tested, and itās definitely in the ballpark of +8). Making it even would make sense but itās still not really solving the problem.
shrug, Fulgore routinely empties his spin speed and gets it back again throughout the course of a fight. I donāt think reducing spin speed for a strong technique matters that much to him.
Also, for the record, the only way Fulgore is technically safe is if he immediately cancels DP into shadow laser just as soon as heās off the ground, then heāll only get 1 shot of the laser out and land immediately at about +8 or whatever. If he tries to do the full laser at any point during his jump, you can OS punish the DP and the laser; because Fulgoreās DP has pretty substantial landing frames, there is a timing where you can press a button that will always be after the latest possible window where Fulgore can use laser, and always in time to still punish DP. Itās something you have to practice, and itās missable in real matches (which is pretty annoying), but if this never gets changed, people should be aware of this and work on it.
Basically, just always ālate punishā the DP so you block the lasers if he does it. Fulgoreās DP isnāt like other DPs where you have to really be on point to punish it (Tuskās DP, etc)ā¦ there is lots of time. And if you block the lasers, you also always get a (big) punish. Heāll push you away but you should be able to shadow wind kick (or similar move) as an easy punish, and you might be close enough to punish with a normal in some cases.
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I would be in support of a height restriction for the lasers.
4 Likes
I would be OK with seeing this go through. Some characters already canāt cancel reversals into shadow moves.
that sounds like a good enough nerf without loosing too much utility
I think Iām probably in the minority here in not being totally opposed to making reversals safe with meter, but I AM opposed to really lopsided distribution of that ability. It feels off when jago can wake up with a safe DP most of the time when there are characters without a meterless reversal to begin with. At the very least I DEFINITELY think fulgoreās TK shadow air laser being as plus as it is is too much.
100% agree with the sentiments everyone has written here. Iām fine with invincible reversals being Instinct cancellable as well, but meter is a bit much to me (Especially with how quickly you gain meter in this game, and how safe the shadow moves generally are). I also think that Jagoās Heavy Wind Kick should be airborne (It makes a lot of sense visually) so that it canāt be cancelled at all but thatās just me.
Nah, thatād make stuff like shadow counters and certain punishes hit airborne, which would mean you wouldnāt be able to convert to combo for most characters if you stuffed him out of it.
I meant while itās active, it should be grounded during recovery. Like Ryuās HK Tatsu in V
That would also make heavy wind kick throw invincible, whichā¦ I dunno, that seems like a pretty decent buff. Like, as a read during Kanās ranged pressure, you can just throw out heavy wind kick randomly to beat command grab AND clear swarms AND Kan probably canāt easily punish AND if he has randomly pressed stand fierce you donāt get comboed (you instead get knocked out of the air).
In fact, throwing heavy wind kick out against tons of people, knowing you canāt be counter hit for a grounded combo, seems really strong to me.
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I can stand behind this. Iām not against converting unsafe moves into an advantage on block or at least making them safe, but given how plentiful meter is in the game, moves like that shouldnāt be so safe on a meter cost. I think if it falls under a characterās specific resource consumption or instinct cancel, this limits the safe conversion on block to a lower degree where most characters canāt freely toss out major punishment moves without retaliation on block or whiff.
Ah yeah youāre right, I didnāt think about that. In fact that actually kind of makes Ryuās HK Tatsu annoying in V, people try to punish from a crouching position (It whiffs crouchers) and they just get an air reset lol.