Close Normals: Yay or Nay?


#1

I’ve been wondering what people think of these since they seem somewhat controversial in fighting games. In KI’s case, I assume a big reason for their existence is the combo system, which has a few features that utilize them as fast low-startup links. Not to mention the strong Street Fighter roots of KI’s gameplay.

But outside of that, in close neutral and pressure, do they add to the gameplay in interesting ways or are they just a messy superfluous inconvenience? And why is that?


#2

Just for clarity, you are talking about normal buttons that are different compared to when you hit the same button from further away?

I’ve never really though too much about it. I can see it might be a little confusing and less to less predictable gameplay for newer players. But it also allows for more utility without adding buttons or command normals.


#3

Yes.


#4

Close normals are a good way to give flexibility to a character, giving them tools that work better in a CQC situation means you can try for a heavier normal with slightly less risk.
Granted, with some characters like Tusk, the close normal will take away a far normal’s good properties as well. HP Headbutt may have more advantageous frames, but if you’re looking for stagger or trying to anticipate an AA it may end badly.

I think it’s a neat addition. Adds some depth to neutral.


#5

Definately NAY.

And While we’re at it remind me why we need 6 Buttons For Normals again ? :thinking:


#6

I’m not a fan of them personally. They just provide unnecessary complexity to a character whom otherwise wouldn’t need it. Orchid has these kind of normals and it was rather frustrating dealing with it.


#7

I never really cared for proximity normals. I understand how it can be useful for characters who are intended to be bad at close combat, and how it can slightly mitigate their weaknesses when their opponents close the distance. But for a lot of characters I main in games it only forces me to keep my distance to prevent them from triggering, since they are usually inferior for my playstyle (Jago being a good example, I can’t stand his proximity normals).


#8

I’m against them mostly because they are Redudant… every character already has short ranged fast attacks in the form of LP & LK so why bother giving those same properties to the other buttons ?


#9

As a note, most close and far normals don’t have significant frame differences from the opposite version. Hisako and Tusk do, but they’re very much the exception in that regard.

They haven’t really. Close normal or no, a character’s fastest buttons will always be their lights, mediums, and heavies, in that order. Whether your close normal comes out or the far one will not pay a real role in the game of “is my button fast enough for this?” If something is negative enough for a close HP to hit it, it will almost always be negative enough for a far HP to hit (Tusk’s HP/MP and Hisako’s HK are the only exceptions to this I can think of, though there may be an extra example or two strewn about the cast as well).

As to TC’s question about how I feel about proximity normals, I don’t have a strong opinion about them one way or the other. They exist, and it is what it is. I’ve played games that don’t have them and they don’t play better for the lack of proximity normals, but it’s not like their presence elevates the games they are in either. It’s just another design decision stacked on top of a dozen others, and isn’t really a key factor in whether or not a game will be fun or play well -shrug-


#10

Hmmmm… I didn’t know that…

In games like Street Fighter and KoF they always have different properties like Being Special Cancellable when the Far Version isn’t.


#11

Yeah, KI doesn’t have anything analogous to that. As a rule all normals are special cancelable, and for the things that aren’t (Tusk staggers mostly) there are workarounds built directly into the character to ensure that stray hits still lead to stuff. Close and far button distinctions aren’t really pronounced in KI for the vast majority of things.


#12

Close normal are useful, many of them have quicker startup than far versions, which helps with pressure and performing manuals.

For example, Jago’s cl.mk is cornerstone of his pressure (its +2 on block iirc), and great meaty (it has 3 or 4 active frames).


#13

Coming from an Eagle player, I kinda need that close normal for my max punish. HK knocks the opponent away and is no way useful for combos (and imo one of his least used moves) so the fact that I have an option to actually have a good max punish available with the Cl.HK is great for me.

Besides it doesn’t really affect play for me when I play other characters as well. It doesn’t seem much of a difference other than probably being a little quicker than the regular versions of the buttons. And it adds more variety. So it’s a yay for me


#14

Give It Up, James… SFV is beyond saving…

Also Proximity normals will solve one problem and then cause another.

This is why I believe Fighting Games don’t need 6 Buttons… You only use 3 of them most of the time anyway. The rest being for edge case scenarios.