Cinder's matchups


#1

I am starting to get back into this game and decided I want to discuss cinders matchups at this point in season 3. (1-30-17)

DISCLAIMER: I am not a pro player. I also haven’t played consistently in a few months. I appreciate feedback but I need logical reasoning, not “you are bad why would I listen to you” kind of stuff. I will give reasons behind every matchup and what I think. This also might have to be multiple parts since I have a lot to say.

Jago vs Cinder: 6-4 Jago’s favor

Jago has been easily one of the best characters in season 3. His superior normals, DP and powerful instinct give him a big edge in this matchup. Also Jago’s crouching MK can low profile cinder’s fireflash and could catch his backdash last time I checked. Cinder’s best bet is being full screen and sticking jago with pyrobombs before making his approach. At close range in the neutral jago dominates.

Cinder vs Sabrewulf. 6-4 sabrewulf’s favor

Sabrewulf can abuse cinder with his amazing normals and mixups. Not only that but wulf’s speed gives him the big edge in this matchup. Wulf can stay on cinder the whole game and never let up. Cinder’s only real escape is a DP, and even that gets low-profiled by wulf’s slide. Cinder’s backdash is almost useless in this matchup because wulf can catch you with many different options including the same slide that beats the DP. Surprisingly eclipse also will beat cinder’s fireflash which always confused me. Wulf also makes cinder’s bombs useless for the most part. If Sabrewulf is always being aggressive and sticking to cinder there won’t be many opportunities to throw bombs.

Cinder vs Glacius: 6-4 glacius’ favor

Glacius basically can just bully cinder and has a counter to just about everything cinder does. You want to throw bombs? Glacius dodges with his puddle. You want contest in neutral? Glacius can cold shoulder or shut you down with his better normals. You want to backdash or DP defensively? Cold shoulder beats both those options. This matchup is much better than season 2 though. It’s certainly not unwinnable, but in some rounds it can feel that way.

Cinder vs thunder: 6:4 thunder’s favor

Thunder in season 3 is crazy. He does so much nutty stuff and it’s very difficult to punish. This matchup is not as bad as the previous 3, but thunder is excellent at shutting down cinder’s air game. With the new season 3 update he is great at avoiding pyrobombs as well. Even better than season 2 which he was already good at. Cinder is forced to respect thunder and play a neutral that cinder is not comfortable with. Cinder can’t really compare to the mixups thunder has and thunder’s instinct gives everyone a hard time.

Cinder versus shadow jago: 6-4 shago’s favor

Shadow jago has similar advantages to jago except shago is fast and can contest cinder’s pyrobombs directly. Cinder’s best tool is his bombs easilly. Shago can be on par with cinder’s pyrobombs by using his own fireballs. They are basically an even match at full screen,but shago wins at close range for the same reasons as jago only he has an easy time getting no there. This matchup is not as bad as jago versus cinder though just because shadow Jago’s damage is so low.

Cinder versus sadira: 6-4 cinder’s favor

Cinder beats sadira in the air that’s basically all there is to it. Sadira does not have a good reversal and you can bully her with bombs to death. It’s not impossible for sadira but cinder has a clear advantage. Avoid fighting sadira on the ground though she has way better normals.

Cinder versus orchid: 6-4 orchid’s favor

Orchid has a great DP , amazing buttons, and great walk speed. She can’t deal with pyrobombs very well so it isn’t one sided, but as soon as she puts you in the corner you are toast :slight_smile:. Most of the season 1 cast beat cinder for all the same reasons. A good reversal, and great buttons. It is no different here.

Cinder versus spinal: 5-5 even matchup

This matchup can get a little crazy, but that’s just how spinal is. Yeah he has better normals and the absorb can be annoying but that’s about it. He has no DP and if you stick him with bombs, the character that is all about being aggressive has to stop and respect you. Spinal does not have very good defense so when he is forced to respect you, things will go your way. If spinal can get momentum things will go his way. It’s an even matchup

Cinder vs Fulgore: 6:4 Fulgore’s favor.

This is a lot like a mix of the shadow jago and jago matchup. Superior buttons and DP. Not to mention the annoying teleport mixup game and the dumb fireballs that he can cancel into teleport and punish you for contesting his projectiles. Yeah fulgore lost his old AA laser from season 2, but he can punish you for flying just fine. Cinder’s air mobility can find some use, but when it comes to this matchup cinder is mostly just outclassed by fulgore’s impressive arsenal.

Cinder versus TJ Combo: 5-5 even matchup.

I honestly don’t have a ton of experience in this matchup. In season 2 I probably would’ve said it’s in TJ’s favor, but not now. It’s hard to put bombs on him but he isn’t at any crazy advantage in the neutral. I don’t have a lot of matchup knowledge but I say it’s pretty even. Trailblazer of all things can contest TJ a lot. It beats the roll and tremor if timed properly. These 2 don’t have any real strengths or weaknesses against each other.

Cinder versus maya: 6-4 cinder’s favor

Cinder can contest maya in the air and has good tools to beat her daggers. Maya is super cheap and gets a lot of free damage with her juggles, but the advantages cinder has are worth more. You also don’t have to worry about cross ups as much since the down up input on fire flash. Burnout Enders are also great in this matchup because maya relies on her daggers so much. This matchup is annoying don’t get me wrong, but it’s still in Cinder’s favor.

Cinder versus kan ra: 5-5? I honestly don’t have a clue

Cinder can shut down scarabs with pyrobombs and trailblazer, but in turn kan ra has better normals and can shut down a lot of cinder’s air game with grabs and AA. I used to think in season 2 cinder won. Then I thought if kan ra played defensively he actually won the matchup. Burnout Enders are good here because kan ra has to be doing something all the time to keep his zoning up. It’s really weird so I give it 5-5. Definitely someone with better MU knowledge could add in.

Cinder versus Riptor: 6-4 Riptor’s favor

I am not sure if people will agree with this one, but I have always thought that riptor wins. It seems weird because riptor has no real reversal or direct counter to bombs, but she has other strengths. Her giant attacks give her a huge advantage and keeps cinder grounded. She can play defensively at first and punish most of cinder’s tactics. As soon as riptor gets on top of him it’s all but over. Some of her moves trade or beat fireflash and this can sometimes force cinder to rely on his horrible reaching jab and grab to push riptor back in some way. Riptor can really bully him and it gets even worse in her instinct. It’s also hard to put bombs on her in a similar way to Sabrewulf. You can’t throw bombs at close range. This has always seemed like an obvious 6-4 to me.

Cinder versus omen: 6-4 cinder’s favor.

This one might seem weird that it’s not 5-5, but I think cinder has a slight edge in this matchup. He can contest omen’s projectiles and as soon as you hit him with one bomb. You force him to stop and he now has to be defensive. He has no DP, but his dodge can be annoying. It’s an interesting matchup to say the least as long as cinder stays out of the corner he should be at the advantage.

Cinder versus aganos: 5-5? I haven’t played it enough in season 3.

This matchup has always confused me. It has felt like it’s been in cinder’s favor and other times I feel like it favors aganos. To be fair there are not many aganos players to really feel the matchup out. While aganos has amazing AA and his instinct shuts cinder down, he has no DP, no real answer to pyrobombs and is the size of a semi truck. It’s always been a toss up for me., but I definitely see both sides.

Hisako vs Cinder: 6-4 hisako’s favor

I think this is a matchup that is debated a lot, but I see it as a solid 6-4 matchup in hisako’s favor. She can easilly avoid bombs with her teleport. Her long reaching normals and specials dominate cinder. Her rekkas also beat cinder’s DP and backdash. She has great AA and her counter can catch some of cinder’s moves on reaction. He is forced to stay grounded and avoid backdashing which shuts down almost his entire set of tools. Hisako is also super small. For some reason certain small characters cause some of cinder’s moves especially 3rd degree target combos to not work properly. If hisako is crouching and you do light 3rd degree into shadow fission for a massive punish sometimes certain punches will whiff. This causes the frame advantage to be off and hisako will actually get out of hit stun before shadow fission or any fission will hit her. She can then block or punish if she wants to. I always thought it was a bug but it is not. It’s just how the hit boxes work. All in all hisako has the right tools to beat cinder.

Cinder versus Cinder: 10-0 cinder counters cinder completely.

Cinder can punish cinder’s backdash with trailblazer, contest pyrobombs with pyrobombs, AA with fireflash to shut down cinder’s air game, and on top of all of that if you put a pyrobomb on cinder he can hardly do anything except wait for cinder to detonate it. I don’t now how IG let such a one sided matchup stay for so long it’s ridiculous.
On a serious note this matchup honestly is super boring. Cinder’s only real way to deal with pyrobombs is with his own pyrobombs. This is the dumbest mirror in the game, and easilly my most timed out matchup.

Cinder versus aria: 6-4 cinder’s favor

I have seen debate on this matchup but I believe cinder wins. Cinder can shut down all of arias assists with pyrobombs, and it deals massive damage to the body that is hit by the bomb. Aria has some advantages, but only in certain bodies. She usually has to switch to remove burnout Enders and bombs, so she can’t keep the advantage of one body for long. Her zoning body has an advantage I would say by keeping cinder grounded and can beat bombs, but cinder beats the other two for the most part so I say cinder has the advantage in this matchup.

Cinder versus Kim wu: 6:4 Kim wu’s favor

I might get some disagreement on this one, but I think Kim wu does well in this matchup. She is great at shutting down cinder’s bombs and forcing him to play a neutral he doesn’t want to play. She is also small and really annoying to juggle. Similar to hisako some moves mainly 3rd degree combos will whiff or not work properly. It is very annoying. The parry is also very strong in this matchup because there are a lot of opportunities for Kim wu to parry cinder just in reaction. Cinder has to play her game, and there isn’t much he can do to force her to play his. Yeah her dragon cancels arent as useful against him, but she doesn’t need them. Certainly not unwinnable, but without bombs cinder is pretty weak.

Tusk versus cinder: 6-4 tusk’s favor

This is like a combination of riptor and jago. Tusk is slow and if you can put a bomb on him he has to back off, but he has giant normals that cinder can’t contest in any way. They can beat cinder’s DP and backdash. Since his normals have so much reach they are great at keeping cinder grounded. Also some of Tusk’s air normals can beat cinder’s DP and that gets annoying. The key to this matchup is surprisingly trailblazer. At certain times trailblazer (especially heavy trailblazer) can poke at tusk while he recovers or is in the middle of certain moves. You can catch the break in between his heavy punch if you time heavy trailblazer properly. It’s really cool. Although this matchup favors tusk it is one of my favorite to play. It really makes cinder feel like the trickster that he is.

Cinder versus arbiter: 5-5? Not totally sure

This matchup is confusing like kan ra and aganos. I used to think cinder lost easilly because arbiter’s normals and overshield since it shuts down a lot of cinder’s moves. All of cinder’s moves actually have a projectile property in some way. Fission is a projectile that can be broken and countered. It’s actually the worst of both worlds. Trailblazer has an explosion when it crash lands which counts as a projectile. Obviously fireflash has the flame pillar. pyrobombs and inferno are projectiles. Arbiter can ignore every projectile with that overshield. Which gives him an advantage. Cinder also has clear advantages. Like pyrobombs. Yeah arbiter can ignore them with his overshield, but not all of them. He also has no good defense like at all. Pressuring him comes really easy. I give it a 5-5 simply from lack of knowledge.

Cinder versus rash: 6-4 rash’s favor

I personally think this is one of cinder’s worst matchups. Yeah cinder can ignore a lot of the cross ups rash has because of the down up input for fireflash, but that’s his only advantage. Rash can not only counter cinder’s bombs, but gain meter for it. Also have you seen rash’s normals? Especially his jab it has 3 times the reach of cinder’s jab. It’s faster and longer than all of cinder’s punches and probably some of the kicks. Not only that but he can easilly combo off of it. Cinder can avoid a lot of what most people hate about rash, but rash only needs a good ground game because he can beat cinder in the air too. The tongue is so fast I don’t even know if trailblazer beats it because it doesn’t matter. You will never hit rash’s tongue with trailblazer because it’s too fast. Rash can bully you like jago and shut down you bombs. He can catch your back dash with his normals or his ram. The ram beats backdash and last time I checked it would stuff cinder’s DP just like riptor’s charge.(that might not be true but doesn’t change the matchup much). This is hands down in favor of rash.

Cinder vs Mira: 6-4 Cinder’s favor

I don’t know if anyone has discussed this matchup at all. I think cinder wins. His pyrobombs can lock down bats and force Mira to the ground. His down up input also helps against shutting down Mira’s air game and she does not have good defensive options against cinder. This is one of cinder’s best matchups in my opinion. Yeah she can contest with cinder’s air game, but I would say cinder wins in the air. Her normals are better. So what? They aren’t good enough to be threatening to the zoning cinder can do in this matchup. Cinder should win this matchup most of the time, it certainly isn’t unwinnable for Mira though.

Cinder versus gargos: 6:4 gargos’s favor.

To be fair I don’t have a lot of experience against good gargos players, but there is a lot of dumb stuff he can do. The portal punches can give cinder a hard time because they can shut down his air game for the most part. The portal punches also make it risky to throw bombs because gargos can get free damage for it. Gargos’ instinct also destroys cinder because cinder has to have the worst heavies in the entire game. They have no reach and are really slow. If you are stuck on the ground and can’t throw bombs cinder becomes weak and gargos can keep up his momentum from there. As of now I think that gargos wins this matchup.

Cinder versus raam: 6:4 cinder’s favor

Raam has no good way to deal with zoning so you can kind of just use cheap moves and beat him slowly. Kind of seems like the way cinder would win fights anyway. Raam should definitely not be underestimated though. At close range especially in the corner he dominates you. He can counter your backdash with shank and some of his moves will trade with fireflash which I find unfair, but that’s how it is. Raam also hits like a truck and makes your damage look like you are tickling a bear. If cinder keeps his distance he wins. If raam corners cinder he wins.

Cinder vs eyedol: 6-4 eyedol’s favor

Both of eyedol’s bodies are good against cinder, and this is probably cinder’s worst matchup in season 3. Fighting warrior body is like fighting jago except he can’t low profile your DP and has no fireball. Warrior body also has some moves that can trade with fireflash. Eyedol’s giant buttons can be a real pain for cinder. Also due to having a recapture eyedol can get full combo punishes on cinder that many other characters can’t. Fighting mage body is like fighting gargos, but slightly weaker all around. He can punish you using bombs and can actually delete bombs with his heavy punches. They don’t even blow up they just disappear. Both bodies have great AA and can either keep cinder away or stick to him. It is not unwinnable but it can be a struggle. The best thing going for cinder is eyedol is giant like aganos so it’s easy to juggle and hit him.

Kilgore versus cinder: ?-?

Like I said I haven’t played in months, so I haven’t touched Kilgore or even own him for that matter. I have watched some of his gameplay and as far as I can tell it seems that he would beat cinder 6-4 but I actually have 0 matchup knowledge. His zoning would easilly shut down cinder in the air and he has simplistic normals to fulgore which are far superior to cinder’s normals. His zoning also appears to be burst fire which could shut down bombs, but when he is overheating that might not be possible. I might change this matchup later on.

There you have it my matchup list for cinder. If you disagree feel free to share your opinion. I feel like I backed each matchup with logical reasoning but that doesn’t mean I am right. Thanks for checking out my matchup list for cinder.

I may come back and do some touch up to the list later on. Either to add more characters or fix some grammar/spelling mistakes I don’t see now. If you see anything obvious or something that doesn’t make sense please tell me.


#2

Feel free to test the Aganos matchup with me; you may find me quite hard to burn.


#3

There are a number of 6-4 matchups I have to disagree with. Jago and Wulf are the most prevalent. While they are tough matchups, 5-5 at best IMO. Jago’s gameplan is fairly straightforward as a match of fundamentals. His offense isn’t without it’s flaws, it’s just about careful blocking and counterattack. Wulf is more or less undone by the same high low mixups you have to be ready to counter. Both high and low options are punishable on block, and he doesn’t do much to shut down the air game. Inferno also makes run a risky option at times without meter to get a projectile invincible strike.

I’ll give you the 6-4 Glacius matchup. But even that isn’t too problematic with the right approach. Cold Shoulder isn’t a brick wall special, and a lot of Glacius players tend to forget, Shadow Trailblazers go through Hail and push back, plus pyrobombs may be difficult to stick, but they are great for neutralizing hail. Plus with his floaty jump, he’s super easy to anti air, and versus your air normals, his jump kicks lose out due to the extended hitboxes, usually.

I’ll give you the Thunder match too.

Shadow Jago 5-5, his left right mixups are the best advantage he’s got. Not that they aren’t potent, but the correct timing on fireflash can ruin his dive kick specials. Plus if you go to the air at close range, aerial Shadow Jago tends to lose most exchanges with him except for Pizza cutter, but against the dive kick, max height Cinder can catch Shadow Jago’s divekick because the divekick attack box is too low to nail Cinder at his jump apex.

Yeah, I’d say Cinder has a good advantage against Sadira, but I’m seeing a pattern of you underestimating Cinder’s normals. Third degree can annoy her in a grounded game to no end. Also, Sadira is so open to Inferno specials.

You forgot that a grounded trailblazer beats her ground slide, since the attack box on the move is too low profile. She does have crazy high damage though, and her air to air is hard to deal against sometimes since she has such long reaching air normals.

Cinder vs Spinal is about 5-5, I’d say so.

Vs Fulgore, I’d also go with 5-5, but it does lean into 6-4 territory. TJ is a good 5-5.

I’m inclined to say that Cinder vs Maya is 5-5. A good user who knows good dagger juggle combos for hard to break stuff with mixed manuals can get some good damage without being very easy to break. She also has some good ground normals and that overhead that also works for a recap.

Cinder versus Kan Ra is DEFINITELY 4-6 in Kan Ra’s favor. This match is just difficult, as much of Ra’s arsenal can shut down many of both his ground and airborne approaches and negate much of Cinder’s mobility. Jago’s normals are good, but the extreme range on Ra’s normals and specials make him REALLY difficult to get in on, especially since Trailblazer’s low priority and throwable hitbox make it hard to just plain get in. Also, given the right positioning of sand traps, Ra has a powerful distance runaway game that makes it even harder to fight him as you will have to struggle to get in all over again. Air to air, Kan Ra can knock you out easily with his j.HP spinning bandages.

I can agree with Riptor at 6-4 maybe, close 5-5. Inferno is a good way to earn a Riptor player’s respect, and is vital to control distance between the two. The aerial game is very risky as the tail swat is a powerful anti air with lots of active frames.

Cinder vs Omen is almost 7-3 in his favor, but I’ll say 6-4. Cinder’s options shut down a lot of Omen’s fireball game, and getting in with that slow floaty jump is difficult from far away. Close up, Omen’s jump, air backdash trickery isn’t that bad to deal with, fairly reactive to defend against. Shadow Trailblazer and Inferno really help a lot in this match.

I’d say Cinder vs Aganos is 5-5. Maybe close to a 6-4 in Cinder’s favor, but I’d feel safer calling it 5-5. Inferno is a good tool for melting chunks with the right moment.

For me, Hisako is a solid 5-5. She may avoid pyrobombs with her teleport, but that teleport can be punished if you see it coming, so bait it with a pyrobomb. Also, her normals may be good but a lot of what she can throw at you can be easily backdashed out of, since the active frames don’t last long and Cinder has a lot of distance to his backdash. I’m not sure why you think she shuts down his backdash. She does have good anti airs though, but nothing for directly over her head, and that’s where the tricky Cinder player should go. Also, Cinder has some unique options for shutting down her counter moves, as counter fails against Inferno and Fission. Timing a pyrobomb with a fission wakeup, she’s either forced to block or use Shadow ORZ. HK Inferno can also work at her, and as always, tricking her with some empty jump ins and grabs can easily turn this match around.

Cinder vs Aria is close to a 6-4 to me, but in ARIA’s favor. May just call it at 5-5 though. With her sonic body, and good assists and projectile normals, she can put up a pretty solid wall of defense. Also, her instinct makes her a nightmare. From my experience with the players who know her setups, mixups, and solid zoning, I’d at least put this at 5-5.

Cinder vs Kim Wu seems like a 5-5 to me. That’s from experiences where she just seems to only control the close range fairly well, but beyond close range, she seems to fall apart a little. Even so, at close range, she’s got a lot of predicatable offense that leaves her punishable by shadow counter, and at medium ranges, she’s gonna have to guess to a lot to try and counter Cinder’s ranged offense, which may get lucky once or twice, but I wouldn’t count on it as a surefire strat. She also doesn’t shut down his aerial offense, you just have to be a little more careful about the angle of approach is all.

Cinder vs Tusk 6-4 in Tusk favor. You make some good points, but to note that Tusk can about shut down aerial shenanigans. Inferno helps the grounded approaches and slightly keeps him off you, but it’s more about controlling space. Oddly enough, a grounded Cinder play does better, those anti air normals of Tusks just destroy you, but Cinder’s spacing and zoning tools really help make this fight more controllable. That instinct mode though can really mess you up if you aren’t careful. It gives him a powerfully relentless high low mixup game.

Cinder vs Arbiter, I’d call it a 5-5. He may have some long range normals that even while negative on block can leave you at a spacing that’s difficult to punish, but are begging to be shadow countered. Also, his overhead isn’t the fearsome beast move it once was, and the nerfs to some of his carbine loops are much easier to deal with, and his adjusted plasma regen makes him easier to deal with. Also, while he can take a projectile or two with that overshield, it can’t take a full stream Inferno, or multiple pryobomb explosions. The overshield won’t shut down a solid offense either.

Cinder is 5-5 against Rash. You just have to be familiar with Rash’s punish windows, and be mindful of your spacing. Rash also on has three auto doubles, and relies on juggles for better damage opportunity. Also, Rash can’t shut down pyrobombs entirely, but you have to know the angles. Cinder can toss them from in the air as easily as on the ground, and the aerial ones come in at an angle that’s difficult for even good Rash players to eat. The tongue hitbox is actually super tiny, so if the Rash player doesn’t get the correct angle to eat the pyrobomb, it sticks. It’s not a huge reflect like what Kim Wu has with her nunchaku special that bats them away with dragons.

I’d say you hit the highlights of the Mira match.

I’d agree with the Gargos match too. Though if you get a knockdown on Gargos, Cinder suddenly has lots of options to shut down anything on Gargos wakeup. I’ve labbed up a number of things as counter measures for a wakeup Gargos, so if you get him down, keep him down. It’s not as hard as it sounds, until he has instinct.

I agree with the RAAM matchup as well, and would also point out that Cinder has some good anti airs for dealing with RAAM’s jump ins.

Cinder vs Eyedol, gonna have to say 5-5 on this one. I’ve not really encountered the same struggles, at least now that Eyedol doesn’t have some of the crazy launch tools he had. Yeah, he may have range on his normals and specials, but they are also very shadow counterable. For me though, while warrior may be tough, mage body is a joke. The simplest thing I do is usually let them use specials over and over and block at long range. At the right height, aerial trailblazer gets you in pretty easily, but just blocking until warrior takes over isn’t a half bad strat. Mage’s chip damage on his moves is really bad, almost non-existant, it’s really easy to just wait it out until Warrior becomes active again, and his stuff is much easier to deal with.

Cinder vs Kilgore. I can’t say as I’ve been matched against any real high level Kilgore players to know how this stacks, but right now, I see it as 5-5. He does a decent job of zoning Cinder at first with his conical area of effect chaingun specials, but when he overheats, it’s much harder to keep Cinder out. Also, Shadow Trailblazer can shut down a lot of the projectile offense he puts up. Blank ball is laughably punishable and his chaingun charge is too. I did play @VladKravich’s Kilgore one time to have some idea, but I think he was mostly just trying a new character, and may not have been overly invested yet in Kilgore’s playstyle. He’s got low damage, but a number of one chance breaks that make his meter combos dangerous.

Overall, I’d say he’s at a solid even with most of the cast, with a few weak matchups and a few strong ones. Main enemies are Glacius, Gargos, and Kan Ra. While good normals like Jago’s have some advantages, Cinder’s third degree combos aren’t without merit, and are quick on the draw, giving him some decent counterattack options in a number of scenarios.

It isn’t until you have the extremely long range normals and specials like Gargos, and Kan Ra’s that you will have problems.