CinDER Potential free damages


#1

@Infilament

Im pretty sure that you noticed it too at what point the patch Pd has buff cinder for free.
Now all they are doing online is run away then search a way to burn yo feet on block for get that free PD on block, then when you are enough on fire with PD all they do is give you a pressing with fireball then try to catch you , opener linker 1hit then ender shadow en that’s like 80% in most of the time. “”“DISGUSTING”"

Since this patch cinder is become annoying to fight against he force you to play glacius all days and hold him at good mid range then manage his mobility between hails, jump HK and shatters :unamused: its not even fun

If I remember, character like raam has been nerfed in instinct PD with the PD patch and its a tool that even in instinct he don’t get that amount of free PD anymore , even sadira instinct web has been nerfed because of the PD it can generate in begin saison 3, but why cinder can still get it for free? without instinct .

can you explain me pls. cause I feel like peoples are underestimate the power of having free PD “” on block PLS) Inferno!

I really need to know some points of view over this character, lets talk guys


#2

I don’t think that’s why Sadira’s web got nerfed, and RAAM’s instinct it still strong.

Cinder’s Inferno has always been like that. It’s just that besides the potential damage, it wasn’t very useful until Season 3. This is mostly there to make up for Cinder’s poor damage compared to the rest of the cast. He doesn’t have a really strong ender like most other characters so he has to build it up himself. Same with Kilgore. The move’s main drawback IMO is that for having the PD built up, it sacrifices actual chip damage which you may need in those clutch moments.


#3

Funny, some days ago you created a thread about Aria, asking for reasons to switch body.

Aria is the character who can take advantage about her unique health system, since she can just switch body and then the burn effect from Cinder’s flames stops, and she can regenerate more safely than anyone the PD.

Cind[quote=“G0tei13Izaragi, post:1, topic:21473”]
I feel like peoples are underestimate the power of having free PD “” on block PLS) Inferno!
[/quote]

I feel you are understimating how much Cinder has to spend to do that. Inferno has mediocre range unless it’s fired up, which means he has to wait 8 seconds between each one(at least)

And you are assuming too much[quote=“G0tei13Izaragi, post:1, topic:21473”]
Now all they are doing online is run away then search a way to burn yo feet on block for get that free PD on block, then when you are enough on fire with PD all they do is give you a pressing with fireball then try to catch you , opener linker 1hit then ender shadow en that’s like 80% in most of the time.
[/quote]

Let’s acknowledge all they have to do:
-Use inferno, better fired up for range, to build PD
-Use it A LOT, since you mention a 80% cashout
-Use fireballs to try to open you
-Manage to open you, do a one chancer and NOT being broken
-All of this, without actually losing their initiative, because if they do it, then you are attacking AND recovering the PD

Raam instinct nerf was pretty necesary, but during a typical combo activation(Start a combo with Raam, get a lockdown, pop instinct, end combo as close as posible to the end of the lockout), the damage he does is very similar than previous the patch.

Cinder’s design is being a hit and run character. Some characters are more frustrating to deal that others, but thats totally normal


#4

I do not have problem with aria cinder Mu since I just have to switch body, the same trhing like when I fight against arbiter frozen frame, it don’t work on aria.

I don’t think so cause raam has always deserved his damages and PD since hes not that extra mobile character and has to work alots for with or try to catch a opponent.

I got you, THank got I got a glacius in my team" only a firefighter man could hold him down with ease :smirk:""

you don’t think but its exactly what happened after these web nerfs, all the PD that it ocasionate are away with all this nerfs on it "if you didn’t know it " But anyway its not the subject .and I don’t care from her anymore.

so fare I remember cinder since s2 always has been able to do that amount of damages but has to work greatly like most of the cast, an,d this PD patch gives him a 3 seconde extra more punch.

I don’t know wich Kilgore you fight against but Kilgore has potential to deal alots of damages. see what the best kilegore actualy are doing with him and you wil see by yourself. @nwo omauryo hes a streamer


#5

[quote=“G0tei13Izaragi, post:4, topic:21473, full:true”]

so fare I remember cinder since s2 always has been able to do that amount of damages but has to work greatly like most of the cast, an,d this PD patch gives him a 3 seconde extra more punch.[/quote]
It mostly has to do with combo breakers taking out half of the PD built instead of all of it. After that patch, Cinder players’ hearts don’t drop anymore when the PD they spent half the round building up disappear, myself included lol. So because it only halves, there is more chances to cash out fairly high amounts of damage. They did change how much PD Cinder builds to compensate for that though. It just seems like he does more damage when really he just has more chances.

Do you know why Kilgore gets that damage? It’s because he basically has his own version of Burnout when his turrets are on fire. These were huge in combos when he first released and they toned him down since then. Unless you’re thinking of something else that I’m not aware of.


#6

This

He is in my annoying characters list. Also Cinder fights are the most to end with the timer under 10 seconds. They get long…However the PD change has suit him nice.


#7

I agree about every fight coming down to timers, at least with those Cinders who do nothing but spam Pyrobomb and do nothing but wait for you to make a mistake.

I wish he could only have one pyrobomb on the screen at one time instead of three. It would make things MUCH easier to manage.


#8

Back in the old days Cinder was still annoying for his air movility. At the arcades I was beaten because of the infinite he had where once he juggled you it was impossible to come down to the ground again. . That was frustrating…I don’t appreciate the character that much, but thanks to modern days we can’t have those kind of exploits thanks to the patches XD

I wouldn’t mind they do something to him about the potential damage or annoyance. But since I don’t play the character at all I’m not sure what they could touch, because I only think of nerfs (as you mentioned: less bombs) like no confim full screen or less chip damage. Don’t know, just saying.


#9

I don’t think the 50% PD on breakers is the big change, but rather, that it takes 3 seconds to heal any PD, which means every time you block a bomb (chip damage), it’s 3 more seconds before you start to heal. I think it kind of means you’re gonna lose that PD in one way or another, because avoiding bomb chip isn’t really a possibility.

I dunno, it’s strong, but gonna have to accept there are strong characters in KI. Counter pick Cinder if you don’t like him, or learn the matchup.


#10

less chip on bombs? LOL, bombs do very little chip unless they are fired up & you’re throwing shadows. It’s a waste. I can only zone someone out for so long before they are in & throwing a bomb is a stupid high risk. Inferno PD on block is very LITTLE compared to season 2 & it’s not even safe on block. Yeah, I can have a full screen inferno every 8 seconds(or in instinct), but I also need fired up dp, fired up bombs, fired up fission. It’s impracticable to think that the move is annoying if the far reaching one doesn’t happen too often anyway. You get burned out? Great, walk away & don’t fan the flames. Got a bomb on you? Ok, then get some good defense & wait it out. There’s only so much Cinder can do before the flames are gone. I have to work on opening you up a 2nd time to get that juicy cashout with risk of combo breaks.

50% loss on PD after combo breaker? The chances of me getting in before the rest is gone is extremely low at a high level of play. I’m back in neutral where if I trailblaze in, then I’m unsafe/punishable(unless spaced correctly), throwing a bomb could result in me getting hit in the face since I’m right in front of them, & my buttons aren’t that great to poke around in neutral at times either.

To the ones complaining about timeouts & opponents spamming bombs. Have you tried walking them down? Walk forward a little bit & block the detonation/inferno. Continue until he is in the corner. Tries to trailblaze away? PUNISH HIM. Hit up the lab instead of complaining. Thanks.


#11

I don’t get it too the fact that he got 3 pyrobombs, hes really annoying As character and now with the patch PD hes just terrible to fight against.


#12

Eh…while I agree this thread is unnecessary, I think you’re downplaying Cinder’s offensive options, particularly once he sticks a pyre bomb on you. He can have a tough(ish) time opening you up for full combo, but that just means you often get stuck eating grabs (which he can also cash out from if he has a bomb on you or on the floor). As Infil says - a goodly chunk of the time, Cinder building a bunch of white life on you means you’re going to wind up eating some large cashout value at some point.

Cinder’s offense isn’t super dirty per se, but it’s quite strong once he’s in a position to make you hold it. He’s got good frame trap option, and you’re incentivized to try to check him since grabs can also lead to big cashouts.


#13

Raam’s instinct nerf was necessary. And even despite that he still has 100% combos with instinct. There are some characters who can’t as easily run from Raam. The instinct nerf was more to help out the likes of wulf spinal tusk etc who have a hard time with Raam already.

When it comes to cinder he’s a good character. But hes been among the more well balanced. His pd cashouts are good but he has to open you up twice to make them work. Raam only has to open someone up once And once he’s on you that’s not hard. it’s not as easy for cinder to do that as people think. His offense is also fairly linear. Eventually there’s key things that pretty much any good cinder will go for.


#14

Not necessarily. He can build a ton of PD if he makes you block anything->inferno/shadow inferno. It’s not terribly hard for him to build massive PD even if he hasn’t touched you. He’s still got to open you up to cash out, but I dislike people intimating that only bad play gets you dunked for large amounts of life. It’s like when people say Spinal is easy to block…no, he’s really kind of not. Cinder isn’t the best in the cast at opening you up, but he’s not bad at it by any stretch.


#15

I think one thing I would be fine with is getting rid of the frame trap with trailblazer on block. having to guess if he’ll just stop & grab/block or ram into your face again is so dumb. It’s something I personally don’t like to use at all, but it definitely works well.


#16

That doesn’t really seem like the most dumb thing he has to me, lol. That’s just standard offense, yeah? Loses cleanly to DPs unless spaced perfectly.

I think the 50% PD thing works well in Cinder’s favor and helps him be a more fun character, and I also think bombs should do chip damage, and I also think the 3 second PD heal is probably pretty good for the game overall. Just so happens that the total combination of those things works really well for Cinder, and I think that’s his real juice. Throwing the full screen bomb from a back jump is like 0% risky against most characters and it basically guarantees that they have to hold the PD for a while longer, until you can get close.

But again I don’t think they could change any of the systems around it. Maybe they could slightly lower the PD on Cinder again or something, but the technique will always be strong and you can’t lower the PD too much, if at all.


#17

-shrug- I don’t mind that at all - that’s just a standard fighting game 50/50. KI has dozens more of those, and FG’s in general are loaded to the hilt with them. Anytime you block a stand jab from Cammy you’re eating one, any time you block a Spinal medium skull you’re holding one, pressure in MKX was built on 50/50 strings, etc. I don’t have any issue with Cinder getting one after trailblazer.

I don’t think Cinder is overpowered or in need of any adjustments or anything. I just like it when we’re honest about character tools. Cinder’s got some good ways to open you up.