Change his P command grab? Maybe?

Ok I like General RAAM, but I feel like something is missing. I feel like his command grab should be a SPD Variant. Or have his current Command grab do burst damage. I know this seems really similar to someone but I really think this is a cool idea :frowning: So his dagger can do insane damage or one of the stomps will do insane damage I don’t know there are many things that can be done. What I would like to see as a SPD variant is him grabbing the person by two hands (or one sheesh) jumping into the air, throwing them down, and him landing safely :slight_smile: (I know this seems like a stretch but I think it’s a good idea)
So IF This becomes a thing that will be great :smiley:

Well that’s my topic let me know if you agree, and I highly doubt something will happen but it’s good to get my idea out there :slight_smile:

Hmm.

What do you think is lacking in his current toolset, and how do you think this SPD grab will remedy that?

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Its all personal satisfaction to me. I mean hebus supposedly a real grappler why not have a real grappler move?

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Yeah the i2 Shadow Command Grab he has isn’t enough? I mean he literally sets you up to stomp on your body after any of his grabs.

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The SPD grab variant would be the main source of damage but i guess it wont because the combo damage… I am probably biased because i played alot Z****** and I feel the “Real grappler” arch is missed out?

I mean, he picks you up and stabs the ■■■■ out of you with a big serrated knife… then throws you down and stomps on you. Given the choice of being SPD style grabbed or gutted with a knife then curb stomped, while neither is going to be all that pleasant , I feel like.is rather have Gief slam me. It’s brutal, but slightly less-so than multiple horrendous stab wounds and a skull smashed to pulp. I’ll risk the broken neck if I have to.

So… maybe I’m missing what you’re saying here, but you’re suggesting just an aesthetic change? Like.changing the LOOK of his command grab to some kind of aerial throw/thing? Or, his mechanics and such don’t change, just the animation or a move?

While I can appreciate your desire to create something more traditional to a grappler moveset, nothing about KI is traditional. The reason the throw is what we have is because KI has always been about combos. Everything has to lead to combos in some manner or give that potential. While a Zangief type move could easily enough be combo’d into, the SPD style move doesn’t leave much room for follow up. So much of RAAM’s moveset focuses on these throws and raw damages moves, but leave little room for the traditional combo system to actually be utilized. On top of that, constant hard knockdowns would easily slow the pacing, and given there’s little few things RAAM can do to follow up a hard knockdown, the stomps and resets make a lot more sense. It still gives insane damage for a meterless throw, and is faster startup than almost anything in the game, but I see why the design choice of giving it a follow up and not just giving him a 20% hard knockdown free when he could have a 14% knockdown with a chance at maybe an extra 6% with some followups.

On top of that, the aesthetic move change your describing doesn’t like a thing RAAM as a character would probably do. He’s about stabbing and grabbing, and the two do go hand in hand.

While he has traditional combo system flow as well given his serrated blade stab move and auto doubles, his throws also need to complement the combo system as well, and not just be pure raw unbreakable damage.

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I’d like to add that, input wise, having a 360 stick motion would definitely run against KI’s theme of accessibility to beginners.

Hear hear, I can agree to that.

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Who knows when we will get a real 100% grappler ya feel. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I am failing to understand this. Are you talking about aesthetics or mechanics? By SPD do you mean ‘jumping into the air and piledriving with an adjusted cinematic camera angle’ or ‘20% raw damage hard knockdown with no followup potential’?

RAAM’s grab already follows SPD’s startup and range-to-damage ratio relative to button strength, while also allowing for followups that potentially lead to enormous damage in the combo system. I think that’s about as close to SPD mechanics as one should expect considering the nature of KI’s combat system, as opposed to SF’s.

In light of this, I’m failing to understand how RAAM isn’t a “100% true grappler”. His gameplan revolves around landing his grab and capitalizing on the grab vortex, which becomes exponentially more dangerous as he accrues resources and pushes you into the corner. Once he has the corner, that grab vortex is something “100% real” SF grapplers have wet dreams about. So, considering his gameplan and his kit, specifically the mechanics of his grab (and by extension, stomps), how is he not a real grappler in KI terms?

I don’t mean to sound rude, but this isn’t SF. Gief would get eaten alive here, choking on the impotence of a 20% hard knockdown that he can’t reasonably capitalize on.

EDIT: These are the views of a SF4 Hugo player.

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Hear hear. Not sure how this dude can get more grappler-esque.

OP, Please explain to us what you believe make RAAM less of a grappler than he should be. Unless you’re just posturing.

Wondering myself. Gief kind of defined what a grappler is and Raam has a lot of those attributes, just tailored to KI’s systems. As has been said, just copy-pasting Gief in wouldn’t be a great idea… That said though, again, as has been said, Raam’s grabs work very similarly to Gief’s as far as differing range and damage depending on button strength… They just let you follow up with a little Oki on the knockdown they produce. I mean, Raam even has an armored running bear grab like Gief, it just behaves differently on hit.

A ‘true’ grappler is hard to define exactly, but if you follow the typical mold… Its typically a character with good foosties. Strong normals that have very specific purposes, solid frame data with some usually being long-ish range. Its usually a large, beefy character. He/she usually possesses a fast command grab that varies in strength and range. typically the varying grabs are used to decide between pure, flat damage, and slightly less damage but better setup potential. (leaving you closer to the opponent after the grab, trading between a soft and hard knockdown, etc). A lot of grapplers have armor of some form or another…

I mean, almost every box a ‘true’ grappler checks, Raam checks too. He just checks a couple extra boxes (stomps etc) so he works in the ki environment, which is very different than something like SF.

Raam, to me, is a good representation of a grappler in KI. Dont see what the issue is… I mean, I get preference, just not liking him, that’s fine, but saying there is a fundamental flaw in his design just doesn’t necessarily fit.

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He’s not a true grappler because he’s not hairy.

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As I said I’m most likely biased because I played Z***** a lot so I guess I can’t really complain much :frowning: But TO ME RAAM does not feel like a 100% grappler tho.

Right, I feel you. I’m not trying to tell you that your feelings are wrong. I am interested in understanding WHY it is that you feel this way.

I have also put considerable time into several grapplers in my day (GG May/Potemkin, USF4 Hugo/Zangief, BB Tager, to name a few) and of the opposite opinion, so your stance interests me. I provided reasons as to why my opinion is thus (along with others, in fair detail), and am asking you for the reasons behind your opinion.

Do you have reasons beyond Zangief? Also, what iteration of Zangief are we talking about?

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Hey, so

Turns out you can use a 360 motion in the air to get RAAM to command grab once he hits the ground…

…you just gotta start from :arrow_left: LOL

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