Can someone review this video and explain why my counter breaker failed?

The only explanation I can come up with is I did not press it on the first frame whereas the opponent mashed precisely at the first frame and somehow option selected me with a throw and beat out my Counterbreaker. I’m genuinely confused

This is the kind of nonsense that deters me from taking this game seriously or investing any more money into it. I bet my meter on the line for a shadow counter, with a character that struggles to build meter no less, made the right read with the counter breaker, and I get punished for it.

It looks to me like he was probably mashing light breaker immediately, got a timing lockout because of it, but pressed it before you pressed your counter breaker. Make sure to use the extra window (which I think is something like 5 frames prior) to “pre set” your counter breaker to catch mash/instant break attempts.

I can’t be certain as I can’t perfectly go frame by frame, but I bet if you were to go back and use the Frame Step feature you would see the lockout symbol appear before the start of your counter breaker animation, even if it’s only a frame or two ahead.


Yeah I agree, most likely what happened. About the buffering window, what you’re telling me sounds like an option select. Use the five frame window, buffer a counter breaker and confirm after so essentially the counterbreaker will come out first frame if they mash, or not and you can confirm after. Is this correct?

If you buffer the Counter Breaker it will come out, regardless. So in a case where you buffer the counter and the opponent does nothing, you’ll just whiff the counter without having an “OS” to try something else (I’m pretty sure, anyway).

The point of the buffer frames is to assist in landing specific “read based” counter breakers against mashers, as far as I understand it.

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Makes perfect sense. So essentially I’d be trying this out with mashers that can’t stop pressing buttons. Looks legit then, just some really bad luck considering all the circumstances LOL I’ll be holding that salt down in the meantime like a fort. Thanks for the perspective :wink:

Guys, I’m gonna come out and say it, and I hope you won’t think less of me for it, but for as long as I’ve been playing KI, and as much time as I’ve put into playing Cinder and trying to develop my game for him, I did NOT know about the 5 frame buffer window for counter breakers. That would have saved me A LOT of headache and torment, because there is so much stuff I get broken on as Cinder, I can see some obvious situations coming where they will try to first frame break, but I never could beat them to the punch on the counter breaker.

I can’t believe I have been playing without something this useful all this time. I’m trying to look back in the patch notes history to find when they added this feature, but thanks for letting me know now.

Makes two of us buddy.

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I believe it was sometime around the Mira patch, but as usual I can’t be completely certain.

During the time period where there were huge complaints about Counter Breakers “not working,” Infil discovered what was throwing people off was that the animation for the timing Lockout symbol didn’t start or appear until a few frames after the lockout itself, meaning that during a match you’d only see the lockout icon fully visible after you had whiffed a CB.

Afterward, IG removed the animation from the lockout symbol so it would simply appear the first frame the lockout occurred, and added the buffer window to make it easier for the attacker to set up the counter breaker before the defender has an actual break chance; if the defender locks out before the Counter Breaker is input (whether in the 5 frame buffer or not) the Counter Breaker will still miss, because the lockout came first.

(Again, more knowledgeable or technical players may be able to correct any mistakes I’ve written here, or make what I’ve said more clear.)

I remember everything about the issues raised by Infil. The lockout symbol being an 8 frame animation was an issue since season 2. He made that expose thread on why counter breakers don’t work, and I remember how he made those gfycat animations showing the actual in game occurrence at work. He did a really good job on that.

Though now that you mention it. Yeah, the lockout symbol was retooled around that time though, and I remember him being happy about it. I just don’t remember seeing anything about the 5 frame buffer window. I can’t believe I missed that one, it sounds so useful.

Counter breakers aren’t reliabable. They can only work with people that would break after reacting to one hit of an autodouble but it’s hard vs happy breaking people (even with manuals). Some linkers seem to not be cancelled into counterbreakers the time I want. I’m tired of trying that and not getting themt. The moment I hit the command I want the instant counter, not the eternal parry because the break seems to come out faster. The gamble is annoying and not that rewarding. The counterbreaker system is a good idea but you can lose more that you think with it, specially online (unless people fall for heavies counter breaker against Glacius players, that’s nasty and annoying -__- )

What I mean, you can only counterbreak reliably the people you can really read and even so you can get a lock out just because (lag, or the person break 1 frame before or after, bugs, ect, who knows). The rest is a gamble…

My assumption is if I’m not getting my counterbrekaer on medium linkers is because they are breaking few frames before. either they are guessing or then I don’t know, medium linkers aren’t that obviuos specially when you can’t listen the sound with headsets.

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You do get that. The counter breaker doesn’t animate instantly but the functionality does.

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From the likes of it he was pressing the two light buttons and you got a lock out.

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I have another question, how prioritized are throws, and are their priorities (minus command grabs) high enough to beat a 5 f normal? If i recall the limb system well. At least in s1 that is, heavy beats medium, medium beats light, special beats heavy.

Reason I ask is because Ih ave been thrown during startup frames of certain normals that just seemed out prioritized by the throw

I wouldn’t say throws have priority in the same sense that normals and specials do, but that is more or less pure hitbox interaction. If you have a moment where you were thrown out of a move, it most likely is because you used a normal that was either slower startup than a throw, or the throw hitbox could outreach the attack portion of your normal and you get thrown, which I don’t know many throws in the game that can do the, save Kan Ra.

For throws, it’s pretty much pure hitbox geometry and the speed. Normal throws are usually 4 frame startup, but mediums and heavies are usually slower than that, so a throw is gonna beat you to the punch on that, unless your hitbox becomes throw invulnerable, which is usually a property of a reversal or a command grab.

In another sense, throws could also be the highest priority in the game. As their hitbox interactions can’t be blocked or beaten, but can be countered, combo broken or teched, depending on the character and the throw used.

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Because they don’t work, lol.

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