"Burff turff" changes with pros and cons

Ok, so we all know that change can be good or bad, and I personally love the ever evolving characters of KI. With that said, my Favorite changes are the Burffs (buffs and nerfs combined). They are able to remove an unfair aspect of a move while also giving it new utility.
So I ask you all, what burff would you propose? I can start with my own. I think a good burff would be Kan Ras ant lion teleporting him to his trap on whiff and block as well as hit. This would finally give Kan Ra a teleport while also making the ant lion a bigger commitment, keeping people from pestering you with it from full screen. I’m looking forward to what the rest of you have to say so please, feel free to post your very own Burff.

Regarding your suggestion, I think it’s a horrible idea. With all of the tools at his disposal, Kan-Ra doesn’t necessarily need to get closer - he has his ranged attacks, traps, sand-spikes, super-jump, sandsplosion teleport, and so on… Giving him 1 more tool will just break him moreso than he already is.

If anything, I’ve always thought that they should make his sandlion breakable with a heavy combo-breaker upon recapture, similar to how Thunder’s Skyfall after Sammamish is breakable. This will make it harder for Kan-Ra to extend his combos to incredibly damaging lengths, because people can escape it if they can anticipate it, but also still give him the option of counter-breaking to keep it going. It’s a good idea for both players because now both players have an opportunity instead of just the Kan-Ra player.

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Alright, that does seem fair and I’m not sure why ant lion is still unbreakable. However, I still think it would make sense to at least have him teleport to the trap on block. This would mean that blocking an ant lion that’s just “thrown out there” would actually be punishable. I’ll admit that seems a bit much, but I’m just spit balling here.

Maybe breaking antilion can be debatable, but skyfall its a bad example of how to manage it IMO

Skyfall its an only heavy breakable. Right now, if shammanism hits, its only useful as counter breaker bait. Skyfall should have 3 strengths, making it more viable as follow-up

I’ve heard this argument before in the old Thunder forums. It’s an interesting idea, but IMO, it would make Thunder too good because the setup potential he has after that hard knockdown is virtually guaranteed if it’s not broken.

I had suggested the following as changes to Thunder which would make Skyfall less of a braindead “break heavy” option, and would give Thunder a little bit of movement as well,

Q1: Regarding the light variation of your idea, wouldn’t the needed time it would take to get a sizeable distance and then land likely be punishable by the person who got hit by the Sammamish, since they can quickstand from it (I’m picturing it look like his grounded instinct dash in this instance along with his slow floaty jump, but falling to the ground instead)?

It’s not too hard to imagine Jago using a quickstand followed by awakeup heavy windkick, for example to punish Thunder for doing it.

Q2: If the light variation isn’t an actual attack, how can the opponent break it with the light combo-breaker, if at all?

Don’t get me wrong, overall, I like your idea, but at the same time, would he still be relatively balanced (IMO, I think not).

With regards to the light version, I don’t picture it as being breakable. The move is purely there for mobility, and is essentially an aerial version of Thunder’s Instinct dash, but a shorter range. I intended it to be used to bypass projectiles, bug swarms, AAs, etc. Thunder’s combo would drop when using it, considering the amount of time he is not landing an attack.

After the dash (falling back to the ground) Thunder is as vulnerable as if he was completing a regular jump, so this move is not something to use all the time. Like you said, if your opponent uses light Skyfall, its dangerous, as you can punish them for it. At a bit of a range though, LSF helps to pass some of the things that are difficult for Thunder to jump over normally.

I added the “combo opener” to the Medium version, as the way I worded it prevents it from being a recapture, but still lets him combo off of the move. This one would likely be really unsafe on block.

My suggestion from other thread:
-L Skyfall makes a forward air dash, doesn’t lead to combo, good for air to air situations
-M Skyfall makes a down-forward angle, like ARIA’s M crescendo. Opener, VERY unsafe on block or wiff
-H Skyfall stays the same
If you are coated by CoTS, all versions are projectile immune until landing


Thanks for the description!


The same idea? Really!?

@xSkeletalx AND @Dayv0

I still worry about the added mobility making him unbalanced. He already has good reach with a lot of his normal attacks, a decent dash (and great special dash, especially with instinct), and nearly all of his special moves and command normals move him forward.

Both of us discussed this subject here:

Even you was in the conversation!! XD

I can appreciate this, but he needs something, as it is too easy for people to play a runaway or zone game against him, especially those with teleports, like Spinal, Fulgore, or Hisako. He has no projectile whatsoever, and moves very slowly. His jump is extremely vulnerable as it’s a large slow arc, and his only real decent option against heavy zoning or runaway is his Instinct dash/new Skyfall buff. Even that doesn’t really help, as you are likely to avoid one fireball or swarm, only to be hit by whatever is coming next. Sammamish isn’t invulnerable unless it’s the Shadow version, and the current option of Skyfall is super easy to break (although you can use this fact for counter-breakers.)

I’m no expert in terms of fighting game balancing or mechanics by any means, but I think this change could be balanced.

Well, then… Why don’t you ask the experts themselves (the devs)? I’m sure they’ll be happy to explain to you why they think it would or would not be balanced. :wink:

Sure I was… Clicking your link gave me these results:
The page you requested doesn’t exist or is private.

While this is most likely a bug, he actually can teleport on a whiffed sand lion if the opponent gets caught in a scarab. The ant lion needs to be positioned near the opponent but not able to recapture. I’ll post a video when I can.

I personally rather they leave Fulgore alone considering they already did so much to him. unless he gets a slight damage buff I don’t want anymore freakin’ nerfs!

I want him to get his full charge like in S1, make it a “pips ender” or something

His full chare will just make it even worse for him. Consider this: Maya can throw a dagger at you quick while you’re charging and Riptor will be right on you. Kan-Ra will have time to put a sand-trap under your feet. Even with the light chare you’re gonna be more vulnerable anyway.

I can’t see it making Fulgore’s situation any better than what we have right now because you have to stop fighting to chare meter.

Being someone who’s mained Fulgore in season1 he was a character that was pretty hard to win with because he can only get it via-charging. You had to rely on hard-knock downs to get the oppurtunity to charge or send someone back, because this no longer the case since you press up to et up from some hard knock downs no point in having it back.

I know it’s a bit upsetting to not have a ton more meter than you use to, but the tools he has now, he can do alot with just two pips if you’re creative enough.