Buffers on block / attack

Are there any input buffers while blocking or attacking? (or maybe just a buffer for throws?)

In training mode, if I set a dummy to block, and then mash grab, and then with Glacius, if I do close mk (+1) into cr lp (4f) while the dummy is blocking, its very easy for the defender to grab me out of cr lp, but its very hard to get the cr lp to counter hit correctly. In theory, if the defender’s grab is 4f (fulgore), then my lp should be active 1 frame before. It does feel like if I have the fulgore mash cr.lp instead, (also 4f) then it is easier to counter hit, so maybe its just throws? idk

It almost seems like the defender has a couple frames of leniency for the input, whereas the offender doesn’t. This makes it feel like I can’t go for frame traps close up without being frame perfect (I know Glacius isn’t aggressive per se, but I’m not asking for the world here lol)

The game does have input buffering, but I don’t think the reversal window for things is particularly large. For throws especially, mashing throw during blockstun is a pretty solid way to get a delay tech OS, but you aren’t super likely to get an actual throw animation out of it. This one may be a bit of an execution thing tbh…the gap you’re trying to frame trap is just 1f, so fair bit of opportunity to muck it up and get thrown instead.

The game certainly has lots and lots of dirty frame traps though…KI’s got a ton of quite plus normals (+2- to 4 is pretty common in the game), and you normally don’t have to be especially close to do them.

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Upon reviewing the Killer Instinct Frame Data sheet, I conclude that the in-game frame data is just wrong

cr.lp is 5 frame startup, not 4
Cr.lk is +0 on block, not +2 like it says ingame.
Startup looks like its 1f earlier ingame than in the frame data sheet

This is probably common knowledge, but not to me

seems like the sheet also has errors – no way st.lp is +1 on block

Well, yes and no.

Most of these moves are 4 frame startup. That’s 4 frames where the animation is active but no attack hitbox is present, then on the 5th frame, the attack box shows itself. Some people see that as 4 frame startup, some people will call that a 5 frame, depending on how you classify it.

Some call it 5 frame startup because they say on the 5th frame of animation, you see an attack box, and count it as part of the startup, so they include the first attack frame with the startup. It’s all about how people learn the terminology, but KI classifies 4 frame start up as 4 frames where the attack is animating, but no actual actual box, but the next frame after those four is where the attack first comes out. Hence, 4 frame startup.

There have been several frame data sheets passed around, and due to these inconsistencies in the nomenclature, there is a chance it can be differently classified.

There are also chances of the in game data being wrong, and also the frame data sheet being wrong, as the frame data is usually updated regularly over the course of the game’s lifespan, and depending when that was written or last updated, the frame data on it may be incorrect.

i bet im going to be flipping “4 frames until active” and “4th frame active” forever lol

but anyway, theres that situation, and then there’s ‘is this move plus or not’ for cr.lk. Game says +2, sheet says +0

given how it seems to behave in training mode, and me never seeing a glacius better than me use it, it seems easy to conclude the in-game is incorrect