Bird induced Normals

#1

Neutral bird commands induce normals; why?

Every so often I try to use the bird to escape pressure, however I only manage to get an ‘induced normal’ stuffed, & the bird command completely negated; thus putting myself in a combo. For a character with really poor defense as it is, THIS isn’t really helpful. Is it supposed to be this way?

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#2

I’m back and forth on this, but i’m leaning toward that ought to be something that’s addressed for Eagle. For as helpless as he is on wakeup and on defense, having a button come out when all you want is say, Screech, doesn’t seem helpful.

Then i have to think about how you can call on the bird even in the middle of moves, within combo, in tandem with Shadows with seemingly no restriction that i’ve found so far. It’s classic KI where a character has something very unique and strong all to themselves. He gets stupidly ambiguous mixups off that. So i keep weighing that in my head versus his pitiful defense. I wanna note, even as of right now, there is no visual cue that the bird is getting called, strong all on its own when KI relies on visual/audio tells. So for Eagle to get a buff to have not even a whiff button ‘tell’ to a bird call is strong, but i guess, justified to me.

I can’t believe i’m saying this and i hate fighting this character…

#3

The down bird command doesn’t get interrupted. That’s the whole point.

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#4

The bird command can definitely be interrupted…

#5

Every bird command except the dive bomb can be interrupted. The dive bomb cannot be. Test it.

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#6

I’m aware dive bomb doesn’t get stuffed, but I don’t feel the trade off is worth using it in any other situation aside from getting out of the corner. I’m just like… Hooraaay… we’re out of the corner… Daria face… It’s just as easy to put him right back in the corner …

#7

All of Eagle’s attributes from the opposing side require simple blocking really. There are auto block mechanics that prioritize themselves when you’re getting attacked high & low simultaneously; If you’re fuzzy guarding of course. Fuzzy guard, & punish is all thats really needed to diminish his pressure game. His pressure is really contingent upon the bird & arrows which isn’t always so reliable considering the arrows run out, & the bird has a cool down mechanic. Offensively he’s fun to look at, but I don’t really feel like he’s a serious threat. Corner him, or put him in set play and it’s pretty much your game.

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#8

The Dive bomb bird is there and useful but soon people will learn how to bait it and avoid it. Hard to block cross ups beat it especially if you have projectile coming from the other direction (I’m looking at you Aria, Fulgore, ect)

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#9

Commands which control something independent of the main character all behave like this in KI, it is the trade off for you being able to control them independently and whilst doing another action. You’re only factoring in one half of this interaction, where bird commands make Eagle do moves when idle, but remember this same mechanic allows the bird to do commands whilst Eagle is busy. For comparison Aria does have to perform an animation to call her assists which limits how often she can use them (can you imagine if Aria could call assists as freely as Eagle can call the bird? That would be madness!)

This also applies to Orchid’s firecats, Rash’s bikes and Sadira’s instinct webs.

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#10

Yes, Eagle’s bird commands aren’t regular special moves/command normals as they aren’t working with their rules. Unlike Kilgore’s teleport or Kan-Ra sandsplosion, they can’t be reversals. It’s pretty clear that they didn’t wanted to give Eagle, a heavy setup-good offensive character, a reversal. Eagle SHOULD always block meaties, and when a blockstring ends, try to trade a c.KKK, so the bird’s divebomb gets him free from pressure.

It’s an intended weakness, which also works in his favor: since he can call the bird assist while doing any animation, he can perform a vast array of powerful tactics, which includes but not limits:
-Making most of his approaches safe, including his slide
-From the previous point, get a mixup
-Set setups
-■■■■■ shadow counters
-Etc

The current properties of the bird’s commands makes him extremely powerful during offense, but weak during defense. This is intended, and anyone who wants to play Eagle should do peaces with this concept. @MBABanemobius worded it better

Sonic is right. Once you manage to press the input while your character can be controlled (not in hitstun, blockstun, knocked…), it will come out

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#11

He’s designed to be pure offense. And pretty much suffers from the same thing as any pure offense character. His wake-up is very easy to get around\ doesn’t exist. You have to use bird bomb smartly and make good reads to get people off of you. Look for gaps or tells in your opponents offense. If it’s not something you can get behind eagle may not be for you.

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#12

Is anyone privy to a consistent AA. Seems as though everyone kind kind of jump about his head without consequence. Back + MP seems to be a bit inconsistent; 10 frame start up If I’m not mistaken.

#13

Back HP is a fantastic AA. Back MP will trade a lot due to the priority system.

#14

Down MP also has a hitbox above Eagle’s head after the initial box, could be used as well in some circumstances and would be better at covering directly above you than back MP (and it can’t be crossed up).

#15

To be fair he might be basing this off of fighting my omen…in which eagle has it worse than spinal trying to aa him when he’s right above him

#16

I think the bird is bugged due to this because you are supposed to be able to do bird fling after the medium follow up of wing span. However it is very inconsistent. Or maybe you can manipulate this to your advantage by plinking in normals with the bird because i accidently crossed up a standing hk in my frustration in the lab. I dont have a way to record ■■■■ like that tho :confused:

#17

Oh yea also when i plink the bird command st lk sometimes doesnt come out for the back bird command