Are Cinder's in-game frame data correct?

I’ve been labbing out my RAAM v. Cinder game, and I’m confused by Cinder’s in-game frame data. It says medium trailblazer is -9 on block.

RAAM’s sMP has only 7 frames of startup. If Cinder throws out M Trailblazer and then tries to block, I should be able to punish him with RAAM’s sMP, right?

And yet, when I try it in the lab, Cinder blocks the sMP.

Anyone know what’s up, or what I’m missing? Maybe some of the fine, upstanding Cinder players in this forum know something I don’t about Trailblazer’s safety?

Yeah I think that’s wrong. I don’t know the exact data, but I think Cinder’s medium trailblazer is like -4 or -5.

@BHswordsman09 Could you confirm for us?

I can’t verify at the moment, as it’ll be a few days before I can test it. I would like to ask though, are you SURE your s.MP as frame perfect? Remember, there’s a 2 frame gap you have to perfectly time in order to nail the punishment window. If you are off by 3 frames, he’ll block it, so you gotta be absolutely on time with your punishment delivery.

Also, last I checked, RAAM also has some problems with his listed frame data as well.

When I can I’ll help check this.

There’s always the chance that I missed the window, so I also tested with RAAM’s sLP, which starts up in only 4 frames. He blocked that attempt as well.

This is very confusing I know, but here’s the thing.

If the game says the move’s startup is 4 frames, it actually means it’s a 5 frame move, since it’s active on frame 5 after a 4 frame startup.

The exception to this rule are shadow grabs like Thunder’s and Hisako’s, where it says some thing like “5,0” or “3,0”. This means it has 3 frames of startup before the shadow, but then it’s active as soon as it ends, making Thunder’s grab a “5 frame move.”

Yeah this game has some info problems lol.

1 Like

You’re asking the wrong guy about frames. Sorry.

There’s a ton of incorrect frame data. Not just for cinder, but ARIA, shago, omen, probably a good chunk of the cast has incorrect data and typos. So when this happens I do trial and error and find the correct data that way.

Actually, it looks like the frame data might be correct in-game. I just went back in and tried super hard to make sure my input came out on frame 1, and I got RAAM to hit Cinder with sMP before the block.

Swordsman confirmed fraud.


1 Like

We need @Infilament to shed some light on this!

Trailblazer is more safe if you do it from farther away. It’s not like Jago wind kick which “goes until it hits something, then stops”, but rather it just plays a set amount of block stun and then keeps moving along its normal path. Wind kick is always the same minus frames on block, but trailblazer can (and is often) slightly more safe than the frame data says.

Point blank I believe the move is -9 (used to be -11). But if Cinder does the Trailblazer from the absolute max range, I believe the move is only about -1 or so.

Well Cinders always do follow up trailblazers so if you try to press a button to punish it you’ll just get counter hit. Best options for Raam are emergence if you know he’s going to do the follow up so you can stuff it, but if Cinder decides to block or grab you’ll lose. Then there is the little riskier kryll shield which will absorb the follow up and leave you at +8 if he lands and blocks but it’ll also lose out to land grab and you have to be on point with the reversal timing otherwise you’ll get hit by the follow ups.