If a player can’t be asked to master certain tool, you can’t judge this tool’s power based on this player’s performance.
What makes no point is saying “the tool is fine because your opponent will ■■■■■ up using it anyway”.
In my experience it is basically brainless and free. Any combo or hit that ends in a knockdown = free grenade which is an automatic setup. The corner trap is nothing but brainless – it took me literally 5 minutes to get this down.
If this happens to you, you can fight out, but if it’s a block string your automatically opened for a combo. If it’s a combo string then you have to take the nade explosion for a reset [since it hits arbiter too.] You can try to reset into block but the block stun opens you to the command throw so you can’t even reset mid combo.
Every arbiter worth anything is going to use knockdown finishers and toss that grenade because it sets the match to be completely one sided. The only hope is to be lucky enough to get out of the corner before the nade explodes and hope you don’t get tick throwed back into it.
Without the nade Arbiter is pretty much on par with every other character in the game, with the nade though – the infinite pressure is real. It doesn’t give you true infinite, but it does give you infinite pressure. If the nade hits you, the only thing you can do is block it or hope you catch arbiter in a combo so when it explodes it hits you both, if you do block it, the block stun is ridiculous and you can’t avoid the command throw – it’s a true frame trap that guarantees damage in a way no other frame trap does. It doesn’t depend on the victim to press a button, it works even on block. In short, the only thing you can do is throw out an invincible shadow and hope it’s not blocked, because if it’s blocked you get punished anyway. It’s a literal lose/lose/lose situation unless you’re arbiter, then it’s win/win/win. Win on block, win on hit, win on a invincible shadow if you block it for the punish.
Pretty sure that’s the definition of OP. If you’ve been stuck – the only hope for you is for Arbiter to make a mistake – that’s it. There is no counter-play other than tossing out an invincible shadow and crossing your fingers that he doesn’t block it, the closest thing to counter play is tick throwing him [which he can tech] or opening him up in a combo [which requires him to make a mistake.]
Moves with no counter-play are OP, that’s why cinders bombs disappear on hit.
Honestly, that’s a stupid thing to say. The only reason it opened him up was because he let you out of the corner, he should have used the grenade properly for pressure. Secondly – you used a move that has invincibility frames, not many characters have those that can be used as safe as rash. Even characters that do have invincible moves – most of them don’t last as long as wrecking ball – meaning the window for other characters is almost impossible to time.
That arbiter made a mistake because he doesn’t understand how OP the grenade is or how to leverage it’s power. That’s like saying infinite combo’s aren’t OP because people can drop them – if you master an infinite, it breaks the game, that’s why any good fighting game removes any infinites that are discovered.
Please tell me how Wulf deals with the grenade? Best he can do is chuck a shadow eclipse and hope for the best or catch arbiter with a mix up and let the nade hit both of you for a reset. You can go for a tick throw, but he can tech that and you will get smashed by the nade and opened for a combo. The only other thing you can do is empty neutral jump the command throw and get smashed by the nade and hope that you win the wakeup. Wulf’s wakeup options are terrible, so this isn’t a great option, but it seems to be the most effective option, but you have to positively read the command throw. If it’s not a command throw, you just walked into a combo.
The unicorn situation is that you open him up quick enough to time shadow leap with the explosion of the nade, but shadow leap linker is so easily breakable so you have to be frame perfect, and the only way to be frame perfect is to time it perfectly from the opener. This is literally asking you to time frames 3 moves in advance for 1 frame immunity, and even at that, he can break your double or manual. It’s asking for you to see the future and if that wasn’t crazy enough, it’s still hoping that Arby doesn’t break your double/manual and that he lets you get the opener in at the perfect frame that will line up the linker with the explosion.
I’d say it’s clear to me that you haven’t fought @RGLOfficial’s Arbiter then if you haven’t run into things where it feels terrible if you get caught as well as impossible to avoid
True. But I’m honestly not sure that extrapolating from single experiences is a great policy, when it comes to character balance. For example, I have fought many Shagos that made me feel helpless - but I don’t think Shago needs to be nerfed. I am learning as I go and I am improving my vs Shago win percentage.
There’s been a lot of good discussion on this thread about dealing with Arbiter’s grenade. Over the weekend there was a major tournament (Texas Showdown). I didn’t get to watch any, but maybe people can comment on the Arbiter and vs Arbiter play from the tournament.
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I’m not saying I’m right in what I said. But it’s not just RGL’s Arbiter that’s given problems - every Arbiter starts using grenades and I’m left feeling pretty much screwed no matter what I do.
Two of the people I play KI most with both main arbiter. I literally have over a 100 matches against the character. Arbiters typically have a heavy advantage because they have a closer understanding of the grenade timing. Once you get a feel for it as the opponent it’s not nearly as one sided as you guys make it out to be.
First and foremost you can do an empty jump in where they think you are going to do a block string and blow you up because of it, instead you throw. The grande explodes during the throw animation and you come out on top in the situation. 2nd you can open them up and do an ender before it explodes which will ignore the grenade again. You can also do a projectile invulnerable move during the explosion to ignore it’s effects. As for the command throw, you can poke them out of it during it’s startup frames or what I sometimes do is just eat it. It’s not that much damage and it’s one grenade less that they have, if they actually want to do damage with the command throw they have to use their carbine ammo which means they didn’t set you up with another grenade.
It’s an annoying move and I’ve grown tired of dealing with it myself, but like I said both my friends exclusively play arbiter, I’d probably be getting bored of any character that I’ve had to play against so much. Regardless of my distaste for it I can’t say it’s OP because it’s really not.
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I highly suggest you watch the Texas Showdown top 8, specifically grand finals between Sleep’s Arbiter and Bass’s Cinder.
“I can’t do anything” is a statement, sure, but not a realistic one.
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There’s a lot of salt here. Just for the record - all fighting games expect you to predict the future. Any easily breakable move, like Wulf’s shadow leaping slash, is also easy to counter break.
You are asking people at random in the “nerf arbiter!” thread to provide you with Wulf tech. Then you go on to describe a series of options and dismiss each of them because they are breakable, techable etc. No one is going to be able to give you a satisfying answer if what you are looking for is a 100% safe, guaranteed escape from an Arbiter player playing flawlessly. But KI is filled with setups, dirty tricks and just plain crazy offensive moves that require your opponent to make a correct read. The 50/50 setups you describe are not worse than many of Shago’s or even Wulf’s setups in some match ups.
If you’re just mad and want to rail about it, then fine. But if you really want to understands the setup and get out if it, go look at what other people do. Pick up Arbiter and start using this OP setup. I’m guessing it’s more beatable than you think.
Only adjustment I can think of is maybe have him wait just a little bit longet between grenades? that’s about it as far as charge time goes.
Otherwise before we consider that these tips folks are suggesting are something to take into consideration.
Actually now that I think about it. You have to use the smae logic with Halo. In Halo if you get stuck with a sticky and you have no way to survive you should run at the person who stuck you and get close enough to blow them up. Which is why it’s a bad idea to throw it at close or tight spaces.
In Halo this would both kill you and your opponent but it would end up being a suicide on the thrower’s part.
In KI this logic can be applied Just like in Halo. If you get stuck you run at your opponent and the blast will do you both back into neutral.
So yeah those suggesting you guys go on offence once Arby sticks you actually know what you’re talking about.
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Changing the grenade system to make them blow up later, will make it even more powerful.
It will allow to perform bigger combos between each grenade.
There are no asjustments to make to the grenades.
Opponents have to deal with them just like any mix ups in the game.
Hey @TheKeits - where can we find an archive or video of the Top 8? I can’t seem to find it on YouTube…
I couldn’t find anything on YouTube but I found some of the Texas Showdown Archive on Twitch by leveluplive.
Nothing to add to what’s already been said…but Lol you think Wulf has terrible wake up? Try playing Arbiter 
his wakeup options are either shield (provided you have meter) or bomb to the face . Once a character gets in its pretty much fair game especially compare to Arby’s slow normals.
That’s not what I meant. I meant by longer time for it to regenerate before you can throw it again. That’s what I was saying. But as people have said on other cases: there’s already some interesting ways of dealing with the grenade issue
Sorry if I misunderstood 