Aganos dash

#21

True. I think the problem with Aganos in this regard in terms of balancing is that IG is damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Give him a good backdash and then he’s able to avoid situations that he’s not meant to, make it slow or non-existant then he has literally no options to escape certain scenarios. Personally I’d be fine if they completely removed them from him. I know just about every Aganos’ player wouldn’t bat an eye at it either.

#22

Probably not. I don’t think anyone would care or even notice. “Aganos had a dash? Really?” That’s the response I expect.

The dash doesn’t have to be good for him. Just has to be decent. Not this…50+ frame crap. somewhere in the 30s could be suffice. Backdash…I’d keep it 43regardless of chunks.

#23

“I could have sworn they replaced his dash with a free punish opportunity button!”

if it were to stay at 40 frames then that’s still almost an entire second to try to visually confirm that he backdashed. If anything, I would rather have it move further back and still be slow if there had to be some sort of compromise.

#24

I dunno, I’m not an aganos main. But I understand having a decent backdash (or in my case a really good one.)

It would make it something to experiment with. As of right now if you dash in either direction(form a neutral stance) you’re better off chunking up, putting down a wall or just walking to your opponent instead.

#25

It’s cost me much more than it saved me. And it’s not just his backdash. During a set with bass yesterday his damn forward dash nearly killed me.

#26

I usually do pretty well to avoid it. But playing Aganos at a high level can get extremely nerve racking and sometimes things happen when you don’t want them to. The point still remains that him having a dash serves no purpose for him. Comparing spinal who’s dash isn’t really bad or glacius whos at least moves him a good distance and he can put 3 hails in front of it isn’t a good comparison. Aganos dash serves no purpose for him.

#27

Yep. Again, user error. It’s up to you to not make that mistake. If I attempt a throw during an opponent’s reset and get locked out, nobody blames the game. It’s a mistake made by the player -it was my fault. Same concept. Is it incredibly hard to use effectively? Sure, there’s no disputing that, but it can be done.

#28

You need your throw. Again with a bad comparisons. This isn’t a mistake that happens to me frequently. In fact I probably make less mistakes than most with the character…it’s simply about getting rid of a tool that doesn’t help the character. Don’t act like you’re never ever going to get this on accident. Unless you’re some kind of ai you will. The point still remains that him having a dash serves no purpose and there’s only extremely rare instances where it’s served him any good. Comparing that to trying to read a throw reset is a terrible comparison.

#29

Terrible comparison maybe, but the move’s still not useless - it has its purpose. It’s just difficult. Besides, it adds flavor to the character and keeps the mechanics uniform across the cast. You guys are just going to have to continue dealing with it, because it’s more than likely going to stay.

That said, if you want to argue for a better dash, I won’t argue against that - but to take something away that can actually be useful from time to time for absolutely nothing in return? That just doesn’t make sense to me.

I’d rather not limit his options anymore than they already have.

#30

Make it better and it could make it worse for characters who already have hell dealing with Aganos. I’m not asking for that. As many others have said his dash has hurt them more than helped. You can try to cling to the rare instances where it happened to help. Doesn’t change the fact that more agree that they wouldn’t miss it. I’ve had ppl tell me They forgot he even had a dash when I got it on accident. Also his options are far from limited.

#31

Compared to many other characters, he often is, especially without chunks. Taking away his dash will only serve to limit him even further.

#32

My problem with his dash is how some of his tools haven’t evolved with his main mechanic: Armor

Ok, so let’s see the big picture:

##S2:
Aganos is a slow and giant character with no true reversal(invul both to throw and hit), with a special mechanic that gives him armor. When Aganos is knocked down(either from the air or by a throw, or whatever), he has basically two options:
-Expect a throw
-Expect a meaty

Not counting dash:

If a throw comes, there are 3 main ways to avoid it: Jump, wake up throw, and shadow pulverize

If a meaty comes, there are 3 main ways to avoid it: Block, Shadow Ruin, or being armored and surpass the meaty

As you see, there was also another option: wake up throw while chunked, could situationally serve to avoid both. You would be free from throw attemps(not command grabs), and you could absorb a meaty and punish it with the throw. This was extremelly situational, and most people were aware of this, so although possible, was a rare scenario

Any other character(except Glacius) could also have another option: Backdash. It would avoid the throw and the meaty. Even if the meaty hits you, you could be chunked and still remain safe.

##S3

Big change!! Now heavy attacks ignore armor. Which means that Aganos wake up game is weaker, since he can’t absorb any heavy meaty. To compensate, he got some buffs(Easier to have chunks and recycle, Shadow ruin is now hit invulnerable on the first frames and not only infinite armor…). Let’s take a look to Aganos options on wake up:

-Expect a throw
-Expect a meaty

If a throw comes, there are 3 main ways to avoid it: Jump, wake up throw, and shadow pulverize(Same as S2)

If a meaty comes, there are 2 main ways to avoid it: Block and Shadow Ruin, since nobody should use a non heavy meaty against Aganos

The dash option is worse, since throws could recover faster enough to still allow a punish from the opponent(as always), and a misstimed backdash woulnd’t make the heavy be absorbed by armor, since armor no longer can absorb heavy meaties

So, Aganos backdash utility is worse in this season. Which makes me ask myself: It’s right to have so bad backdash with this options? Even Gargos, who has terrible defense, has a “decent” backdash which saved me a lot of times

I would appreciate your opinion here @LeoFerreis, @LetalisVenator, @RFGCAtsumachi

2 Likes
#33

I’m not sure if I read this right, but just to make sure, in s2, you suggested that he could backdash a throw and still recover to punish his opponent if he had enough chunks to absorb the following attacks/meaties?

Imagine if he had a slow reverse roll as a backdash that went about half the distance of LK.ND, but had the infinite armor properties of s.ruin (armadillo protection-style)…

Too much?

#34

Yes, too much XD

Kinda, I mean that in S2, on wake up, you could backdash, and:
1-If it was a throw, you avoid it. Armor would prottect you from one or two attacks after the throw, but multi hits(shadow moves) and command throws would beat you
2-If it was a meaty and you avoid it, your opponent may recover on time to hit you, but the armor could protect you. It was very unlikely, and some characters could just multi hit/command throw you
3-If it was a meaty and you miss time it, you get hit, but the armor still protects you. If it was a DP, for example, you get the hit, but recover on time to be neutral. Again, very unlikely

2 and 3 are no longer viable, since EVERYONE will meaty you with heavy attacks, surpassing the armor. And even 1 is worse, since if you avoid the throw, your opponent could recover on time to hit you with a heavy

#35

It’s not good whether he’s armored up or not. I don’t see how it limits him.

#37

This is true.

1 Like
#38

It’s an opportunity.

#39

You really are reaching hard here.

#40

Aganos’ dash is not good, full stop. He has better ways to move forward, and his backdash is near useless, since most characters can whiff their meaty setup and still recover in time to tag him with a heavy. “It works every once in a blue moon to escape X” does not make something good or even particularly useful. I’ve avoided (bad) setups with Hisako’s backdash - Hisako’s backdash is still cheeks. Hitting my 1/20 chance to avoid something with it doesn’t make it not cheeks.

That said, I’d suggest making your peace with it because it’s probably not going anywhere. The addition of a backdash for Glacius implies they believe dashing should be a universal mechanic, and I don’t see them backtracking on that philosophy.

1 Like
#41

While that’s true it was also something glacius players asked for( for reasons I don’t quite understand). They even said when they revealed it were not sure why you wanted it but you got it. Its something I deal with well. Just came to my mind after my last set with bass as to why he had one.