A spectators opinion on Maya (not balance)

UPDATE: So after seeing some more C88 PinkDiamond matches I have to say Maya isn’t as dull as I thought.
I would still like to see dagger pips spent more often than just always waiting till you have all 4.
Perhaps if Maya players had the option too spend pips with just 1 dagger? (only 1 colour at a time) Not sure how you would input that though. Quarter circle back light or medium punch?
And I’m still annoyed about her long unbreakable instinct combo.

Original post:
Hi! I’ve been watching almost all the KI tournaments since KI came out, but since Season 2 I haven’t been able to play as much as I’d like, the only Season 2 character I’ve played is Riptor and I never even played against a Maya (as far I can remember). An interesting advantage to this is I can give a fairly unbiased commentary on season 2 characters game play.

I was initially super excited about Maya and her redesign (visually). Her redesign is probably my favorite, and her new projectile/ammo based play style looked like my favorite sort of thing (I love Hakkan and Spinal, even though I suck at spinal :laughing: ). However seeing Maya in tournaments she’s always seemed…kinda boring to watch. I mean at first you see the knife juggle combos and the somersault kicks and go oooh and ahhh but after that she looks like a gimmick character whose gimmick is being lame (long weak unbreakable combo’s, hard to read mixups, Season 1 Sadira much?)

Actually Maya reminds me a lot of Season 1 Sadira, the instinct jump cancel combo vs the instinct dagger juggle combo; Maya’s version may not be as strong but its still feels the same watching it; its a long, disappointing 1 way interaction. It seems the best player(s) with Maya do the most 1 way interactions, which are rarely fun to watch :confused:. Worst of all her daggers feel very ineffective when not used safely; its just not worth the risk of losing your dagger. Every time I see a player wiff a raw dagger, 60% of the time they lose the life-bar over it. Daggers are faster than most projectiles but they just don’t feel worth it. Only using the daggers when they are safe to pick up after, doesn’t that defy this characters nay, this games philosophy?

Lastly her dagger pip system feels under-developed, people only use 2 of its functions (both of which feel kind of cheap in situations), perhaps players just need more time to adjust but Maya farming pips seems unavoidable in many match-ups and Maya players are willing to wait until its full, even when 3/4 is totally worth using.

I think Maya is balanced in all the match-ups I’ve seen a lot of, I would like her to stay just as strong after any changes; but I understand that is a difficult thing to predict and manage.

I'm probably opening myself up to savage scrutiny here but... My suggestions (that will probably need to be revised due to my lack of in-game experience)
  • Make Maya’s 1 pip bonuses free:
    When Maya has at least 1 yellow pip, yellow dagger always bounces (no pips are spent);
    Maya has at least 1 purple pip, purple dagger always breaks a projectile (no pips spent)
    a very big buff that makes raw daggers stronger in interesting ways

  • Daggers fall slightly behind opponent on hit (and take longer to return during instinct)
    Less unbreakable daggers in combo’s, (or you could make them breakable I suppose?)
    they can still be used, but you will have to mix in regular hits

  • Maya can only leap as a follow-up to a dagger toss (press :arrow_up: imeditaely after dagger toss)
    Kind of like Kan-Ra’s teleport-in combo trait, this nerf gives zoners a better chance against a Maya that throws a projectile that beats other projectiles >_>
    -Edit: Also daggers should stop at the edge of the screen since Maya can no longer clear the entire arena with 2 consecutive leaps to recover it.

  • ??Mantis with only 1 dagger??
    Feels fair with the change I made to leap, I am definitely overlooking some sort of abuse here, maybe weaken it when you have only 1 dagger? Like a smaller hitbox, or it cant hit airborne enemies, just when you have only 1 dagger. something like that.
    Maybe just forget this buff completely? (I never liked Mantis anyway, lol)

Aganos player here. Mantis it’s a nightmare for a character like Aganos, with a huge hitbox and poor wake ups, a cornered chunk-less Aganos against a good Maya has few things to do but praying. A lot.

In my opinion giving Maya acces to mantis with 1 dagger only dooms Aganos a bit further. In every jump, without almost no time reaction, you have to guess, a jump-in(block high) or a Mantis(crouch)? At least it demands two daggers. With only one you cana still Jump, throw dagger, it’s blocked, jump, mantis/any kick. I would like to see mantis with more recovery and less damage, or even with more start up time, but well, Maya it’s the character that I hate fighting most, so maybe I’m not being fair.

This would almost completely change her in a way that would not be fun to watch nor as rewarding to play.

And your title is misleading.

If you are proposing to change her gameplay then yes it is about balance.

Thanks for the constructive feedback, I don’t see enough of the Aganos Maya match-up, maybe if armor could block Mantis it would help?

Care to elaborate why please? Your comment contributes nothing.

I never said Maya is too weak or too strong, she seems just right actually. I’d like Maya to be just a strong as she is currently after any changes, but I understand that is a difficult thing.

I think Maya is fun, I also love how they re-imagined her. I couldn’t stand her in KI2 so imagine. I feel as though she is a little under-rated but one thing for sure is her animations and movement/frames need an overhaul similar to TJ Combo’s need of cleaning up his animations.

But almost every change you purposed were buffs.

2 nerfs and 2 buffs? And I said the second buff would probably be a bad Idea

I really hate how TJ’s feet just slide on the ground during power-line, but then again I watched hajime no ippo (a famous boxing anime) recently and its characters do the same animation from time to time…

Disclaimer: Maya is my most-played character.

Pardon my previous and current brevity as I was on my phone before and don’t have a lot of time now.

  1. I think she should have to earn each pip as they’re typically easy to get (like Spinal’s skulls, unlike Aganos’ chunks). Giving her 1 of each right from the start and allowing her to get the perks without spending pips is an unfair advantage, AND it’ll be that much easier to get a full charge.

  2. Maya is severely disabled without 1 dagger and crippled without 2. It doesn’t make sense (even in a video game) that hers would be the only projectile to not stop in front of the opponent after a hit; Fulgore’s frickin’ LASER doesn’t even go through opponents! =P

Also, daggers are projectiles and projectiles are unbreakable; changing this for her changes everything for the game.

  1. She needs her mobility to get her daggers back, without which…see above. As the lowest damage-dealing character in the game she NEEDS to be able to reasonably get them back.

  2. Mantis gets spammed enough as it is so allowing a 1-dagger Mantis, even with damage adjustments like her normal ground throw with/without dagger(s), would be ridiculous.

Sorry but I believe you have misunderstood some of my suggestions.

  1. I never said Maya starts with 1 of each pip, please tell me where I made it sound like I suggested such a thing, I only said that she should get bonuses to her regular projectiles while she has at least 1 pip.
    I am aware (1) is a powerful buff, that is why to compensate (2) her daggers should be more difficult to pick up.
  2. You can still leap when you throw a dagger so I’m not sure why this would make them harder to recover. Thinking it over I think the daggers should stop when they hit the edge of the screen instead of the edge of the stage so you don’t need multiple leaps to reach it. If that still sounds unreasonable please let me know; its not like these are solid, “This needs to be done” things, they’re just loose Ideas.
  3. I was actually thinking hitbox adjustments rather than damage adjustments, I should have specified better, I’ll update the OP. I didn’t want to specify anything because I don’t know what would be best, for example if 1-dagger mantis couldn’t hit an airborn enemy or something like that.
    Thanks for your input.

My apologies, I did misunderstand #1 though her daggers do get special perks even from just a pip on one or both daggers, and again that’s very easy to do. Most players will hold out for a full charge though because the added benefits are more than worth it.

Back to #3…she is almost useless without daggers and needs her mobility to retrieve them. It’s more than reasonable to have a missed dagger shoot across the screen to the other side of the stage, and if this happens a smart opponent can keep one or both daggers from her until Instinct when she automatically gets them back.

Her “long weak un-breakable combos” aren’t that long as the juggles rely on her daggers that are projectiles, and they build KV meter pretty quickly.

I’m admittedly biased but I believe Maya to be a very balanced character and is the epitome of risk/reward.

So after seeing some C88 PinkDiamond matches I have to say Maya isn’t as dull as I thought.
I would still like to see dagger pips spent more often than just always waiting till you have all 4.
perhaps if you could spend pips with just 1 dagger? Not sure how you would input that though. Quarter circle back punch?

I’m going to go ahead and post this here as well because I think pertains to the current discussion.

"Maya is different because the only thing that makes her good is the dagger meter system. If that didn’t exist she theoretically would be the worst character in the game. She has the lowest damage, slowest autos and linkers, slowest overhead, non-invincible wake-up, worst shadow counter, and loses 50% of her move-set without a dagger. All that is left is good normals and a super jump. The reason why she suffers in all the other areas is to balance the design of the dagger meter system.

Honestly the only thing I want changed for Maya is the dagger meter system to be removed and replaced with an actual damage ender and give her a reasonable shadow counter. All the other areas she suffers in can stay the way they are. The daggers should be amazing pressure tools that force her opponent into getting opened up and not something my opponent should be punished for blocking against.

The argument for not removing the meter system of the daggers is that Maya would lose her uniqueness and to that I say she would still feel special. There are other ways to keep the daggers unique aside from building pips which have special properties most of which are ignored anyways until level 4.

These are just my opinions and IG will obviously have their own on Maya as well. If I was being bias I would ask for all the areas I just mentioned to be better but I didn’t."

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Im playing around with Maya now as Im building her up to lvl 50…currently at 32,

why the hell did they not allow her to have PUNCHES when the daggers are gone? I feel like that is really lame. I cant stand when i use punch and i get the same ole kicks instead.
I just dont understand why they did this… Its seems like they just went short cut on the animations that could have been a set of normal punches.

anyways…that’s my rant on Maya as im using her tonight.

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Also since Maya doesn’t own the daggers and just recently picked them up from the artifact storage room. … she should be able to punch because she hasn’t had the daggers all her life!

She had to use her hands and punch attacks as she grew to be such a bad ■■■ fighter throughout the years…
but now that she has these new daggers…her hands and punch attacks are non existent?

It just doesnt make sense and is BS in my opinion.

Ok, so I’m still working on Maya and I have another issue… SHE DOESN’T HAVE ENOUGH MOVES! Compared to Kan-ra, Orchid, Spinal, Fulgore…ect… all of these characters have multiple special moves and openers and extra normal’s. Maya has like 4-5.
She needs more…I’m not a huge Maya fan…but this is probably why. …so my question is…WHY? Why has she been made to not have punches…loose her daggers, and only have 4-5 moves?

Just doesn’t seem right compared to the rest of the cast.

I think what makes KI stand out are the special traits that certain characters have. Fulgore meter, aganos chunks, maya daggers, Aria 3 life bars, etc.

Maya dagger pips are a really cool concept I just think they need to be tweaked. The 1 pip iterations are lackluster and I think it makes her gameplay less dynamic. I think a buff to the 1 pips would make her both stronger and her gameplay more interesting as people won’t just be camping on pips for tracking unblockable or damage ender.

But I could be wrong I’ve seen it before in fighting games that tech went stale on a character for a while and tools were never used until some fresh blood comes along and finds something new. Perhaps this is the case with Maya single pip daggers. This is not at all to slight you LCD as I believe your knowledge of the character is extensive.

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