3.4 Eyedol

I know. That’s what practice is for. But many don’t bother with it. Oh well…their loss not mine.

Well I would say that having ONLY the first frame be hit-able makes it seem like it was meant to be a reversal “super” of sorts and that its either a balancing tool or a mistake that its not hit-able. I could be wrong but it definitely seems like an Odd choice. And of course moves that are fast can at times take the place of reversals, for easy other game reference you can see uses of Dudleys DPs in USF4, they were fast had fairly large hitboxes and if traded led to good damage, it was a nice application of the DP idea without the invincibility

As for what the move is supposed to be I honestly don’t know what the move is supposed to be. It can be broken in combos (apparently I haven’t test it enough) It doesn’t really do great damage for a shadow move. Its biggest use seems to be as a pseudo reversal, an Anti-Air and an Anti-Projectile. So its sort of a weird does a ton of stuff move, so maybe it should, could, was supposed to be a real reversal?

As an aside something that has 4 frames of startup doesn’t only lose to first frame meaties, it loses to meaties on frames 1,2,3,4 which to me seems like an even bigger liability because properly timed “cheeky” overheads can still be a mixup and beat her out of her flip kick.

Yes, but when what you want to do is escape pressure after blocking things that leave you + you may actually only have a 1 or 2 frame gap to get out making things tough to time on your side but there side is just the continuation of the pressure string they have been doing. If there are bigger gaps then Eyedol has decently fast jabs into safe confirms and other options to attempt escapes. At least personally my problem is less wakeup defense (though god knows there are dirty setups there) and more the repeated pressure string defense that suffuses KI.

I will say that removing the 1 frame of vulnerability may make it too strong against the dirty wakeup setups in KI, though there are definitely safe jumps and safe meaties against moves with 9 frames of startup (unless Im misunderstanding the data)

He honestly got a bit too over nerfed.

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Yeah, I’m with you on this. I just have to work too hard now against the usual suspects (the shotos) to make the character enjoyable. Really hoping Infil has some cool stuff in his guide - I rely on those a lot because I’m just a reasonable player.

Some tips:

  • Pips are incredibly important for both bodies. As Mage, I would convert every combo into a pip at all times (I would one-chance into launcher ender -> pip, or convert zoning into pips only). As warrior, represent command grab decently often, force them to want to jump, then frame trap them with amazing plus-on-block normals like cr.MP.

  • Uses for warrior pips: run canceling overhead is seriously plus on block (somewhere in the +6 range), and run canceling heavy shoulder is also plus, so you get free ins from almost anywhere. From close range his overhead is not especially useful, but frame traps and throws will do great.

  • Uses for mage pips: stomp strike is an incredibly underrated special. The heavy version is +3 on block (!), does massive amounts of chip, and you can fish for it from long range by canceling after st.HK repeatedly. The only way out is to shadow counter or reversal, but if you do medium stomp instead, shadow counters won’t work. Stomp strike when pip-charged does twice as much chip and is even better on block (frame data says +5, I will run more tests but this looks about right). A heavy pip-charged stomp strike does roughly 4% chip and can be fished for from half-screen with st.HP or st.HK cancels. If they block two of these, you’ve basically hit them with a free fierce attack - it’s roughly the same amount of chip as blocking Cinder shadow fission. Best part about this is if you randomly switch to warrior stance after heavy stomp strike is blocked, you are now +3 at close range in warrior body, so you can start doing stuff.

If they are trying to get wise to your stomps, just cancel into meteor instead, which acts basically like an assist. They have to hit you really early to stop the meteor from coming out, otherwise they will hit you, then get hit by the meteor, and you can one-chance into launcher ender into teleport for a warrior pip. They might randomly get hit by the meteor because it’s overhead, and if they try to block it, then you are massively plus and you can either run away and zone, or take some free chip with heavy stomp strike (pip charged or not).

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The change between forms takes 6 frames and is fully invulnerable (changing to Mage actually makes you entirely incorporeal with no collision box) so you would actually be at -3 just the above scenario. However you would have a free freeze frame and a DP.

Not sure how helpful you’ll find this but unlike Spinal and a few others, Eyedol can’t cancel the remaining active frames when he run cancels,and thus the formula for them is just recovery+advantage-10.

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Ah, I did notice the game seems to run for a few frames during the switch, wasn’t entirely sure how.

Do all 6 frames happen before the freeze frame? I’m guessing yes because it seems you can always block after immediately, though I haven’t tested that scientifically at all.

My general point still stands, though. Usually when you change forms, you are in a kinda bad position, but if you’re doing stomp strike with mage, you’ll be close range and in a body well equipped to handle stuff (plus a freeze frame, like you said). For that reason I actually think Mage is a very versatile body, I think it is not super easy for people to deal with stomp strike pressure, so he can fight up close really well. You can try to block it out but the chip is a serious issue (does 2 health points of chip per hit, and H stomp strike is 3 hits, H + pip stomp strike is 6 hits… the H version will do 6 points of chip which is almost 2%, a few of these and you’re not too happy). It’s also a tight block string after heavy buttons so you’re kinda stuck if you’re in range of st.HP or st.HK which has lots of range.

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Are stomps projectiles or crush projectiles? I can’t remember.

They are projectiles. I haven’t thought about using them to crush incoming projectiles but it probably works.

No no, as in "they can destroy all projectiles, shadow, dissonance etc etc. Like his shadow bolt strike, or kan ra’s st.hk or gargos’ st.hk.

redacted cause there is a chance Im insane This extra data on the PIP strikes is really useful. Pips are supremely good.

As mage, from a good distance, you can combo meteor into improved stomp. About at 3 characters distance

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oh rly thats cool!

Can you combo stomp strike from a light attack? I seem to remember it not being possible but maybe I am misremembering. Maybe I wasn’t using the right light attack?

Had other people check and apparently its st.lk that works not st.lp, not sure what I was smoking. But yeah st.lk apparently works.

I am okay with warrior stance mage stance is giving me the most trouble because I cannot seem to connect his stomp off a hit confirm

As mentioned in the posts above, only standing light kick will combo into light stomp so you can’t really hit confirm it, however if you do it from a s.LK or a medium or heavy button you can just cancel and not worry about confirming as all of his stomps are plus on block.

Not true, medium stomp is -6.

It was but they fixed that but didn’t update the data, it had 8 frames of extra recovery previously which was unintended (but they wrote the data based on the unintentional extra recovery). This was changed in the big Eyedol patch and was one of the few buffs he got (this, making sure all the hits of his instinct launcher ender connected and shadow meteors doing chip).

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