The State of the Spider Queen

Honestly I think I’d prefer web cling to be a hard knockdown ender, it’d be nice to have a HKD option that leaves them in front that isn’t breakable.

I’ve been trying sadira and while I understand grievances with her low damage I do think there’s a lot of glossing over just how strong her tools can be, especially her crazy strong instinct. The webs and jump cancels are really nasty, and it even helps a lot with her poor damage; in instinct her 1 and 2 meter counterbreak combos are only 1% behind chief “I do 50% to my toilet when I take a ■■■■” thunder, and like thunder she gets followups after her shadow damage ender. The speed of TK shadow widow’s bite in lockout situations combined with her ability to jump cancel into doubles helps her low damage immensely.

Lomfao when i was telling that in debut s3 peoples doesn’t take me seriously.

It was time to woke up friend , lol u took 6 months to woke up but to me it was after 1 month i begs the @developers to reconsider sadira . maybe nope in normal stat but in instinct tho, cause her instinct was the biggest deal into her setup. she could stay nerfed as now thats not a problem but

give her back her damages in instinct so she stay viable @developers please once again

for the sadira player i think its logic. so she regains some respect.

lol am happy u can reach at last the top 900 at end ranking. but im always in top 1100 since S3 ans my first star i did it with sadira in s2

u are goin to make me cry stop it please :cry: :cry:
at last give her back her damage when shes in instinct so she stay dangerous only in instinct as in s2. @developers please can u do it for the love and respect to all sadira players i BEG yall on my knees!

IMo the damages back in instinct is the ultime solution to make her viable to most sadira players.

Me too till i die im never gonna leave her . she stay in my top 3 main after 1 ) RAAm And 2)Glacius

Bro the easiest way is to do it while shes in instinct .

Thank u for these cause some peoples thought jump was a easy lux unpunishable lol :weary:

i did it already with raam and glacius. whil u dont have to make a great fight plan to use glay and raam and get a nice cashout damages on doing nothing spectacular or special. minimum 45 % per combo lol lol
from there why u want me to risk my points in ranked with sadira? lol lol i just play her in lobby with friends now .

ok take care of u hope only all this goin to help her to regain notoriety again in all sadira player eyes. byez bye :grinning: and courage

Would it be too much to make her widow’s drop a hard knockdown during juggles? It takes pretty specific combos to set it up, so it’s not like she’d be able to just throw it into air combos. I dunno, a hard knockdown option during air combos just seems like the kind of thing this character archetype would have, and the animation for the move SCREAMS hard knockdown move.

If I was tasked with altering (or not altering) Sadira’s balance, I would:

  • Give her some damage back to instinct webs, a very small amount. It was reduced by 85% according to S3 patch notes, I would change it to be reduced by 70% instead. It is still weak but not quite as weak.
  • Make the damage ender hurt 2% more on a level 4 compared to what it currently does (and change the other levels the appropriate amount).
  • Give 10% damage buff to shadow recluse (it was reduced 20% S3, make it reduced 10% instead)

The goal is not to make Sadira hurt like she did in S2, but rather to let her kill you after 6 openings instead of 7.

I would not undo the other changes, such as lower j.HK damage and breakable HK widow’s bite, nor would I undo any of the buffs she got. I just want her to hurt slightly more over the course of a round.

The changes sound minimal and I don’t think Sadira players would think it vaults her any higher in the tier list, and I think she is a little underrated right now. But I think she struggles just sliiiiightly too much in the damage department, and it’s okay if she needs one less opening per match to take 2 life bars.

Just my opinion. I think Sadira is the type of character that can’t be too good, for the health of the game.

4 Likes

The wimpiness of her damage ender does feel kind of off, it never really feels worth using over her launcher or knockdown enders even at level 4.

a little too much IMo the first time i tried her in S3 i feel like a finger was sayin F*** you! to all sadira player. but what u said above make me realize there are others non sadira player who noticed that too . and it goin me straight to the hart. thank u bro!

Well, he said she’s at least a little “underrated”, which means people think she’s worse than she is. I would tend to agree with this.

I have been playing her a bit more lately though, and I will definitely say that the damage nerfs make playing her just a lot more annoying than I’d like. She just takes forever to kill now it seems, and against a decent opponent matches seem to always last into the last 30 or 40 seconds. I don’t mind her having to work for damage, but it’s honestly pretty annoying having to work this hard for it.

Having a juggle (where she gets a lot of her damage now) broken also puts her on her back, which is definitely not ideal, and kind of stinks because unlike a Cinder (who also juggles heavily), Sadira doesn’t really have many great ways to bait a timing lockout. You basically pick your combo, decide whether you want to counter break or not, and then just let it rock either way.

I’m fine with instinct webs being as nerfed damage-wise as they are, as I think they’re still stupidly good on pressure and mixups. I’ve never liked that heavy widow’s bite is breakable though, and I would like to see some of that shadow cashout damage restored. The latter would help make her matches end a little sooner, which is actually a pretty big personal preference for me. Having to open someone up again and again and again (and again) to kill them just isn’t my personal preference. :joy: I’m not doing a ton of manuals and I’m certainly not doing one-chances, so why is it taking forever and a day to take a lifebar?

End of the day though, Sadira is still a very strong character, and I think people are downplaying and underestimating her by and large. She has been brought a little too close to Shago’s style though (trades crazy mixups for baby damage) for my own personal tastes. I think they may have overdone it just a touch on reducing how hard she hits.

I don’t even like the situation after HP bite to end a juggle that much to begin with, the fact that it’s breakable just feels like insult on top of injury. I was actually just talking to wholio about this exact thing, and we both feel it might be appropriate to make it a hard knockdown if it’s going to be breakable. I feel that it just leaves you uncomfortably close in some matchups without a lot of time to set anything up. Plus, since it’s so telegraphed, it’s not like she’s going to be getting hard knockdowns too easily–the whole point is that it’s really easy to break, so it should net you some kind of real reward if it goes through.

I played a few sets with Storm and co last night and I think the general consensus was that Sadira REALLY is suffering now in the damage department. I think Infil’s advice in terms of possible Sadira changes are fair without making her so good that she becomes unbeatable. I think the @developers should at least consider his decisions, because as a Sadira main, while I can still win, it is becoming a LOT of work to do so.

This may deter new players from picking her up. She’s still fun, but she needs just a bit more bite to her. :smiley:

2 Likes

Honestly I think the main problem I have (and others have) with characters like Wulf and Sadira is that the S3 changes nerfed them overall because juggles build less kv and the characters have good juggle tools. The problem with that is that juggles scale way too much and end up doing extremely little damage (unless you’re Kim Wu with dragon kicks), and cashing them out doesn’t do much because shadow recluse and shadow eclipse were nerfed in damage as well. I just think if they scaled normals less in juggles it would be more worth it to do them and make the characters feel more complete in a sense.

I completely agree. The benefit (in the past) for using complex juggles with Sadira was that you could get a big cash out via Shadow Recluse. Unfortunately, despite being able to do more hits in the air (thus more pizazz), the damage is so absurdly low that other than for show, much of it isn’t cost effective in terms of resources.

Cinder has much of the same problem, but he at least has a means to generate a LOT more damage when paired with a burner ender or two.

As stated, hopefully the devs will hear our collective voices and save the Spider Queen.

Eh…not sure about Wulf, but Sadira actually can do quite a lot of damage off her juggles depending on how you set them up. She can get something like 30% of a throw, for instance, though that combo has a couple of gatekeeper normals that are breakable on reaction.

2 Likes

Yeah, I’d say sadira’s damage on juggles is pretty close to being fine; maybe a small bump to shadow ender damage would be welcome but I wouldn’t say it’s a necessity. Keep in mind, it’s not just 30%, it’s 30% AND a hard knockdown due to the sweep after…though I do wish juggling into the sweep was just a bit easier. :stuck_out_tongue: Wulf can get up to about the same or slightly higher on juggles starting from uppercut, and he also has flipout which means he can make use of the juggle’s PD even without a bar to cash it out or recapture.