Its gotta be one or the other. You should probably be able to see why it would be way too good.
Its fine, we can like different stuff.
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What if spinal able to get 3 skulls on you it starts draining meter. That wouldnāt be busted.
@DoobyDude23 it could be both. Balancing exists for those cases. It would be just a matter of making it drain less, make the skulls bouce less, make the curses last lessā¦ idk there are many ways.
The fact is, at least for me right now, Spinal is not as fun as it used to be.
Then spinal is straight up less than he was before. Flat Draining moves are all either too weak to matter or too oppressive and broken. I would rather have spinal be strong overall than weaker but more"fun" for a few people.
Unless itās as rare or as situational but as powerful as a hype beam from fulgore like 3-4 or stacks or maybe even full stacks of curses draining only shadow meter is drained a lot or if spinal manage to keep the curses on the enemy for an amount of time idk 10 secs without getting it removed then it starts to drain. Even then his current mechanics would still need to be looked at and nerfed to compensate
I like that heās not as linear and more dynamic than he was in S2. S2 there was a pretty clear flowchart, now you have to weigh, juggles, wall bounce, damage, skulls. So thatās great. His skulls however have become more of just a mixup tool or cancel tool. For me the curses are just an added bonus here or there not something that Iām striving to apply.
I still believe they are pretty pointless against an opponent with full resources and when stacked. The stacking mechanic really is not worth the other benefits that having skulls affords you and outside of neutral pokes having 1 vs. 4 skulls on an opponent is pretty much the same.
Perhaps if there was a buff in the effects of having multiple curses applied it would make more sense to use them for the sake of cursing. Itās a difficult balance, we certainly donāt want to go back to spinals linear S2 play.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before as I havenāt seen anyone mention this but what about a compromise of sorts? I understand that Spinal was kinda broken with stealing meter but now he feels like heās missing a unique mechanic. Why not give his skulls drain meter WITHOUT him gaining any of it, like a shadow/instinct meter poison effect. They can still tie it into the story of him gaining more mastery of his abilities and it took him a bit to ārecalibrateā. I think a meter poison effect would be much better without being broken. Thoughts?
Considering he now can get more skulls than ever this season, added with the fact that they can bounce off walls in instinct, AND can make more skulls on his own with meter, having it take resources at any point now would be rather much.
Wait soā¦spinal players want the drain back and forgo the bounces and everything else he got? And stackable curses as well? Sounds like they are getting the short end of the stick.
The shadow summon is real easy to shut down and yes his instinct is insane but itās instinct mode lol. Fair enough on you points though. It was just a thought I had especially if the duration of curses gets reduced to at least half what it is now and goes away if you hit him (same rules as now but stacking only affects duration/number of hits not amount drained). I thought that would be a compromise of sorts. Your point on how easy it is to gain skulls to use as a standard projectile or to enhance other moves and the insanity of his instinct is still a very valid argument though, lol.
Not exactly, lol. Itās just that his skulls only have this new awesome mechanic while in instinct but are kinda meh outside of it at least I THINK that is what the general argument is. And the stackable curses go away with even the smallest combo unless you REALLY went crazy with the projectile spamming and all hit. Stackables are cool but not really a standout feature until someone figures out some crazy exploit for it.
Being in instinct in S2 never really changed much of his skulls if I recall. His instinct only granted skull generation right back in S2?
Yeah his instinct just made skulls easier to get, lol. Which before was really really needed but now he has better tools and options but alot of people feel he is missing something that made him unique and competitive. I have a blast playing as him anyway and he will always be my main but the Iād be lying if I didnāt say that meter poisoning skulls would be awesome and much less broken than vampiric drain skulls were.
Spinal is not being played anywhere close to his potential right now. Iād like to see someone actually using all of his tools before anyone starts calling for another rework.
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Hmmmm now if I just get Ig to give ARIA a dodge counter then Iāll be set.
I am not trying to argue for the sake of it, or be rude or dismissive. Just a preface to this wall of text.
Iām pretty sure there are safe setups for EX.Summon, which is to say that if used ācorrectlyā or āoptimallyā it is impossible to shut down.
Spinals skulls used to prompt meter drain, and thus they were better than they are now, Iāll give you that. But even now they are of average startup, provide hi/lo mixup w/ teleport potential on wakeup, are +2 point-blank (which is good for any special, and better than some other fireballs), and they disable meter gain for a time. EX.Fireball is an unbreakable linker that prevents INSX gain for the rest of the combo. Iād say his fireballs are way better than ākinda meh,ā and Iām a stickler for giving credit where credit is due.
I donāt think there really needs to be any sort of exploit for it, itās just a matter of how one utilizes the stacking, if at all. Your assessment of how easy it is for Spinal to lose his curse from max stacks is correct, but I think could be mitigated in a whole bunch of ways, from playstyle adjustments to perception-of-value adjustments to the employment of specific stack-optimizing strategies (which will certainly involve stack-maxing into INSX into oki).
I actually like your idea, though I think if it were even feasible there would have to be a considerable catch. For funzies, Iād suggest something like:
- Shadow cursed opponents lose shadow meter at a fixed (if slow) rate while at maximum(3) curse stacks.
- INSX curses no longer stack (maximum of one INSX curse at a time)
- INSX fireballs bounce one less time. OR
- INSX fireballs now grant shadow meter instead of restoring a skull when absorbed with b.LP
Used off a launcher ender you get skulls while maintaining a small advantage. Used off a 2MK hard knockdown, you get skulls and have enough knockdown time to do a meaty low skull.
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Honestly I donāt play her much so I donāt really know but I feel like if you had that dodge counter you want but only in her Booster body it would make sense and then I wouldnāt feel so underwhelmed by that form. I feel like all it has is a hover jump and a half-hearted pyscho crusher. A dodge of some kind would really make that form stand out to match the advantages of the other two: melee damage, ranged zoning, and mobile defense. Again I really really have no clue what Iām talking about just my impressions from what little Iāve played of her.
Back on Spinal, lol, I stand corrected by above arguments. Forgive me guys Iām still a noob to being really able to play this game steadily. I bought my xboxone for the Definitive Edition. Iām a longtime fan of the originals but was a PS4 owner. So Iāve been playing this new KI as often as I could but now I can finally really get into it. So these are my noobish impressions. I appreciate the corrections and feedback to help me improve my game. I just thought the meter damaging skulls was really cool and unique compared to other characters projectiles and as sacrilegious as it sounds even to me Iād almost even be cool with the skulls doing little or no Health damage and doing a percentage of meter damage instead just for that mechanic as long as they still had their hit stun and other properties as you have pointed out really do make them a great projectile that I need to learn to utilize much better, lol. Thanks for the input and sorry for the novella I just wrote.
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I was thinking of giving bass body the dodge counter. Booster body is lovely. Itās the assist that I kinda feel just a small bump to something.
I HAD A HUGE RESPONSE TO MULTIPLE POINTS AND A COUPLE CARELESS KEYSTROKES CUZ LAZY AND ITāS POOF GONE FOREVER DAMMIT DAMMIT. /triggerād
Real talk though, I like the way you think on this one. As a fan of the old mechanic that never got to play with it because I only watched the game in S2 and started playing w/ S3 PC launchā¦ yeah, this sounds like an interesting compromise. Trading the actual health damage for short-changed meter thievery sounds really fun. Iām not sure of the complete balance ramifications of all that extra meter, and possible third INSX per match, but itās one of those ideas that remind me of how great Skullgirlsā Endless Beta wasā¦
Also, Boost Body is the fun, grimy one - you score a knockdown, hit Bass Assist and wobble over their head so it switches sides virtually at random - projectiles donāt hit on the side they visually exist on, they hit on the side that YOU visually exist on, so blocking them while being crossed up can be tricky, even moreso when being repeatedly crossed up and back again at a very rapid pace. 
Actually wasnāt considering meter stealing just meter damage lol. Stealing meter is understandably broken because well infinite instinct and shadow meter while your opponent is screwed, lol. Just have spinal DAMAGE the opponentās meters without stealing it was my main pitch. Keep current other properties and hell for balancing lower or remove health damage so the ender and his meta-play mechanic becomes to also prioritize which damage you need to deal right now. Would be unique but not broken. Just my thoughts.
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