Sharing or Keeping Tech (Setups, MUs, Strats, etc): When is it OK?

Tech is going to get out there, someway, somehow.

It’s fine if you use tech for yourself and expand in it.

But it’s also looked down upon to use someone else’s tech and not give it it’s own unique flair now and then.

So whether or not you find something before someone else, be creative.

I actually think they are just busy playing the game instead of posting on the forums. In most tournaments that I see footage of, I see guys coaching each other and providing advice. I’m sure they aren’t talking about the weather when they come up and whisper to each other. It’s probably not super secret, tech that no one has ever seen, but it is match up advice. A lot of those guys also stream A LOT. So they aren’t hiding. There are exceptions - UA MyGod being a big one. He basically lives in a cave emerging for major events, lol.

But there is (and always has been) a really “cliquish” element of tournament players. They hang with other tournament players, talk trash and generally engage in a lot of drama - in my humble opinion.

Just to point out the flipside, if you win the KI Cup, you probably get bombarded by requests for help and assistance with tech and it’s not going to really be possible to help everyone.

I do think that the “pros” could do a little bit more to give back to the community. But I don’t necessarily know what the best way to invite them to do that is.

Well just because they don’t post on the forums doesn’t mean they aren’t willing to try and help you. I was watching some videos of a top player who doesn’t post here (I don’t think) and I had some questions about things he was doing when playing, so I asked him in the youtube comment section…and he not only replied, but he was very nice and actually explained the answers of the questions I asked. It was very helpful.

Sometimes you just gotta ask, and some will be more than happy to try and help you out.

I made a mention of those who support via other means like youtube. I don’t knock those guys/gals at all in what they do to support.

I feel like there are some who are capable of “extending” that knowledge by other means…

This isn’t to say that new players should be expected to simply learn everything on their own, and it isn’t to say that new players will be thrown bones because they don’t want to take the challenge of learning a game/character.

When I refer to “new player”, I mean those who are actually trying to learn KI, but are at a plateau of sorts be it due to a certain matchup, issues with their character’s playstyle, or whatever and they may need a bit of guidance so they go out and actively seek. I’m not talking about those who pick up the game to learn a character they heard was OP so they can place in tourneys or get easy wins, and then dump the game when it’s considered “dead” by sheeple in the FGC.

My thoughs?

Simple:
I don’t care about being the best, probably none of us will be the best.

Most of your tech will be seen as soon as you play.

I like to share, I don’t like selfishness, I will share my tech.

I share ALL my tech, everything I know. Even if I am going to a Tournament soon, I will share my secret setups and such. I don’t like holding back knowledge if it can benefit someone else, even if that tech will be my downfall. I’ll get better. :smile:

For the record, I don’t have any tech. But if I did I would be happy to share it.

I’m not very good most of my “tech” is brain dead lol. Otherwise I would be more than happy to share.

There are a couple of layers to this I think. At the base layer, if you are competing, literally to be the very best, then at a certain level you have very little incentive to share tech. To paraphrase Xian, “if your tech is ‘out there’, then you don’t have any tech”. When you’re playing the best players in the world, holding back on that last little bit of knowledge can be the difference between 1st place and the rest of Top 8.

I’m probably an upper mid-tier/lower high level player if I had to guess, and even I have hang ups about just broadcasting every little thing my character can do in all situations. We were just talking about this on the Hisako forum - I’m more than happy to answer any direct questions anyone might want to ask about my character, both here and within or after a game, but at the same time, I don’t necessarily want to post a general blast that says “here’s all my best setups, and here’s how to beat them!” I’ve on the whole been constructive and instructive in helping other Hisako’s get better I’d like to think, but at the same time I also want to be able to hit someone with something that’s a little unexpected the next time I go to a tournament. Being too free with your tech makes that a heck of a lot harder, and that’s just a fact. I think within a character community though, it’s generally a good idea to share (and I do) - helping one another level up your game is good!

The other layer to this question though is just the market for it. I love the ultra combo forums but let’s face it - the vast majority of posters here don’t give a crap about advanced tech or really leveling up their games. I remember Hero of Time posting a Jago tech thread in the character sub-forum, and he posted a bunch of videos and stuff about good Jago instinct combos. Then he posted another string. And then another. And no one cared. A person or two popped in to say “this is cool, post more”, and that was it. That Jago tech thread had almost no replies, and no one except for Hero posted anything. Why should he keep posting tech if no one cares about it?

Kim Wu has a tech thread, and it has a decent amount of replies to it. And it is vastly outweighed by stupid complaint topics about her shorts or her face or why isn’t dragon kick more like Orchid’s slide type of stuff. At a certain point you kind of just throw up your hand say “eff this, you people are ridiculous and I’m not wasting any more time interacting here.” A lot of the character sub-forums are like that, where people seem quite content to discuss aesthetics and other things, maybe complain about how something is OP and needs to be nerfed, but very few deep dives into what that character is actually capable of. That’s fine - that’s what those people like to talk about. But if that’s the only type of person who visits the sub-forum, then that nitty-gritty gameplay stuff gets left behind.

One thing I’ll give the Kan-Ra players - those guys are serious about trying to make their character work. They talk setups, strengths, weaknesses, etc. a LOT. But they are able to do that because when someone posts those things, their fellow players actually respond and reciprocate. You can’t put it on the pros or the streamers to carry this conversation, because it is on the players themselves to start and continue it. LCD or Paul B may be able to start a thread about a cool setup, but it’s on the rest of the community to keep that conversation going. And in the absence of those pros or streamers, it’s on the community to start them as well and show that there is an actual market for it. Not too many pros visit the Hisako sub-forum, but that hasn’t stopped us from talking a lot of shop about setups, MU’s, and all kinds of other things to help fellow Hisako’s level up their games.

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Actually, as I think about this it’s not that far from my experience with fishing. People are always happy to talk about their general strategies. Maybe even the color or type of lures they use. If you get to be good pals, they may tell you some good places to go. But usually they keep something to themselves. And the surest way to make everyone hate you is to post a dumb picture or directions to a less used spot on the Internet.

Now that i think back, pros did use to come on here and talk tech back in the day. The problem was that more people were posting about costumes, accessories, and character designs that these forums garnered a reputation for not being a good place to talk tech so most of them left.

Share. Always share.

You share, help others get better. You also learn the flaws with your tech, the risks, etc. I don’t believe in holding onto material.

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I try my hardest to post up info regarding Kan-Ra and when I get more well-rounded, I’ll work on Omen.

I honestly enjoy communicating with like-minded individuals who truly love fighting games. Anytime I come across something new or interesting, I can’t help but to share, because I know it will benefit someone else. I grew up with the mindset of not being that guy with the secret. That secret doesn’t have to be tech at all. I like talking matchups because it allows me to see things from a different mindset. Perhaps I can fight a certain matchup if I look at things from a different perspective.

From a community aspect, helping each other out, however you can, is what makes a community flourish.

Fun fact: there is still tech being discovered in Virtua Fighter 2, Vampire Savior, & Smash Bros Melee!!! I’m still finding tech in Battle Fantasia and have posted it on Dustloop and made some combo videos showcasing it. Granted, the community is ridiculously small, but that stuff actually helped out some people and made them play the game more to find more intricacies the game offered.

We’ve gotta bring them back, or at least give them a reason to come back. I’m sure we don’t want this site to end up like the SRK comment section or GameFAQs lol. Not to throw shade on those sites, but a spade is a spade…

Hiding tech actually hurts the game, IMO.

And a game’s competitive play as a whole, whether it be online or offline, ends up suffering.

I think the best thing to say on this point is simply “be the change you want to see in the world”. Sleep actually drops by the Kan-Ra forum on occasion, and I think that’s because people like you, @Crainiak24, and @lHagenl are consistently talking about tech and what you can do to make the character work. That’s cool stuff, and I agree with you - it’s actually a lot of fun!

The Hisako “tech” threads aren’t really what got our little group talking to be honest - it was more a string of MU threads that @Marbledecker posted, originally just one, simply because the Riptor/Hisako fight was so balls-out bad. Now we’ve covered a few more (gotta get back on it Marble!), but we also talk a lot about general character theory, tendencies, and conditioning. Some of the more inclined among us post tech videos and we’ll discuss, but “tech” is by no means the key driver of most of our conversations. And to be honest, I tend to think that “tech” is among the least important tools to leveling up one’s game in general. For most players, simply having a better understanding of spacing and how to approach the neutral and how to meaty properly would help them improve far more than some esoteric tech or fancy setup.

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Thanks for the flattery, I love discussing what little tech I am able to find on my own. I usually main Aganos, but I’ve been playing him less and Kan Ra more just because of the thrill of the challenge.

I say “tech”, but it’s used to encompass all aspects of leaning a fighting game, from basics, combos, to matchups and literal tech (setups/frame traps/etc)…

Basically, “if you build it, they will come.” If more threads pop up having good discussions about characters, match ups, strategies, tech, etc. then the pros will check out the site more.

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I share tech because I know that in elevating the community, it forces me to elevate my own game in turn.

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