And on another note I feel the game has become nothing but juggles and manual style breaking on 75% juggles on high level play. Its no longer reactable breaking. Its all juggle breaking or counter breakers off the juggles.
Low to mid level plays the old way…high level play is pretty much all juggles, staggers, and flip outs. Too many lockouts and counter breakers due to they are all hard reads to break
.[quote=“CrazyLCD, post:1, topic:15424”]
Basically always having meter has allowed him to constantly be safe on everything which allows for few punish opportunities. I feel omen should probably have his meter gain reduced a bit or perhaps have him go down to 2 bars of meter like everyone else. His pressure game is way to strong a moment and I feel this would alleviate it to tolerable levels.
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Definitely do not agree with this. Omen does not gain meter as fast as you think he does. Only if he gets a combo/ ender in does he gain a bar of meter. Jago gains meter on defense much quicker than Omen. He is not as good as everyone claims him to be. and the nerf to his throw in the neutral game really hurt his set up and defensive game.
I pretty much agree with everything else.
Im just not liking the game becoming nothing but juggles. I fought a Rash earlier that did nothing but some tongue flip out cross up juggle that kept us both in the air together for nearly 5-6 hits. Ive never seen anything like it before (Emperor Menzo)
I will take your word for it on the shadow counter, since you play her and I don’t. As far as her breakabity one of her linkers is easy to break (the dash through) but her rekka linker combined with ADs is so confusing that even when I play as her I sometimes get lost and mess up the timing. Maybe it’s just me but she might as well be a Beatle Bailey dust cloud with random limbs sticking out at odd angles…
Lol. Fair enough. I’m kind of surprised though - the dash-through linker (influence) is much more difficult to break than ORZ linker I think. ORZ actually has my vote for most-breakable grounded linker in the game besides reaping…even the medium is slow and has very distinct audio cues. If you ever see me do an ORZ and it isn’t light, then mistakes were made - the ■■■■ thing is basically an invitation to get broken.
Well Im obviously over exaggerating but I think you guys get what Im saying. Its taking over the game play compared to S1 and S2. Which is expected but it doesnt feel no where near the same game.
EDIT- 70% doesnt mean damage…it means 70% of the GAME has become juggles, manual type breaking points and counter breakers. Not 70% damage.
yeah I need to see that Rash set up more so I can understand the break points and strengths…but being hit for the 1st time with it…I didnt know what to do but guess.
I’m a little frustrated on Maya’s tech. She’s been my main for quite a while, and I still don’t see dagger assault as a viable option when playing. The only time I’ve ever used it is on beginners. My beef with dagger assault is that:
The hits are predictable enough to be able to block all of them.
Maya loses a good chunk of options when she disposes of her daggers with dagger assault.
Maya doesn’t have frame advantage in the majority of her moves during dagger assault, making it a pretty dangerous move to use in a charged state (Jago being able to DP out of it once Maya gets close).
The ender damage tradeoff for using dagger assault is just too high for an unreliable move.
Those are just my thoughts on her atm. Everyone else seems pretty fair to me as far as balance changes.
I agree. It would be cool if you could control the assault more. Like if you pressed a button for the attack to strike so you can be more unpredictable with it
Your idea may sound cool in theory but all the design flaws with the move would all still exist. While my thoughts might not mirrors others, I have pretty extensive and thought out analysis as to why Dagger Assault is a pretty terrible move.
The inherit design of Maya was that she is suppose to be an amazing character when she has access to the daggers and a semi-bad character without them as she loses access to a majority of her tools and amazing normals. With that in mind, it seemed rather odd to give her a risk/reward style move that removes her daggers for an extended period of time which even when successful can leave her without her daggers regardless; her pressure while DA is active is limited to C.LK and Overhead. There is no mixup during any of this because the daggers don’t hit overhead so there is never any reason to not block low meanwhile she has to limited to pressure anyways because of the gaps in the DA timing. The move is also terrible in the corner which is where Maya wants keeps her opponents most of the time anyways.
The biggest problem with the move is how easily it is to remove by any semi-competent player.
Shadow Counter
Mash Jab
Combo Breaker
Counter Breaker Fail
Projectile Invincible Shadow Move
DP
Any good player will know how the move works and do whatever they can to stop Maya from being any sort of threat with it. Some have suggested that this move would work better in instinct because you can get your daggers back. The big issue then is that you have essentially wasted your entire instinct. Maya’s Instinct is amazing for building pips and applying pressure because her daggers come back yet you just wasted the entire thing on this move that removes your daggers for a long extended period of time. Even if you do manage to find an opening with DA you’tr left with easy to break slow kick auto doubles to confirm into or if you catch them jumping playing 50/50 with recapture; not to mention losing out on her combo trait because she doesn’t have daggers.
In my honest opinion Maya never has to use pips to win in Season3 because she does real damage now and can just play solid and can keep her daggers the entire game instead of taking these giant risks which may or may not lead to anything. Arguably the only real use of pips is for the unblockable which can lead to some easy to confirm ambiguous juggle combos but those don’t do very much damage in the long run. Pips are a very easy thing to come by so wasting them on a move that has a high chance of failing as apposed to using a guaranteed unblockable that will always lead to something is obviously more efficient.
There is absolutely nothing they can do to make dagger assault viable as it’s just fundamentally flawed. This is the same reason Shadow Spirit Slicer never sees any use because it removes her daggers; that and pips are not nearly as important in S3 like S2. It was semi-worth it in S2 because of the enormous damage cashout potential even then it was risk unless you had instinct.
The reason I didn’t mention Maya in this thread is because I feel shes a relatively solid mid-tier character. The nerfs she got going into the season and the ones she received mid season took a lot away from her but again she can win very easily without using most of the crap she has. I won a few matches just the other day with Maya doing nothing by C.HP and S.MK lol. In fact you can go watch me against Domi in top8 at EVO2015…I didn’t do the damage cashout once and just won using fundamentals and using knowledge of the matchup.
Don’t get me wrong when I first saw DA I thought was going to be cool and wish it was, but 7 months later and still nothing. I’ve even seen some people try to come up with tech for it like doing cross-overs and such but again that doesn’t really mean much when I can just block or DP which will be a trade in my favor.
Yeah, I think Dagger Assault needs some kind of rework to make it more viable. I also think her Shadow DP should have a minor damage increase to make up for the loss of being able to throw a dagger after it.
Maya is totally fine right now overall, but it’s annoying how her kit doesn’t feel well-rounded in spots. It’s weird how she has all these amazing moves, yet her pip-cashout ender which should be her most powerful attack is nigh-useless and her EX DP feels stripped down offense-wise compared to its non-EX variants.
See, I don’t agree with this at all. They could make her daggers always return, regardless of instinct. They could adjust the dagger timing to give her a safe immediate mixup between jump in/empty low. They could adjust the range/advantage to let her continue pressuring immediately after. They could make them add less KV and do more damage. There’s lots of stuff they could do to make it worth using, it’s just a question of whether doing that leaves her unfun to fight.
Yeah, I hate the new Maya, which is a shame since she was becoming my main before the season 3 change…
Cant really figure out the timing on how to break those Hisako rekka’s either…might be an intuative thing though, since I have trouble waiting to break and usually end up guess breaking too soon…
Love Mira, bit yeah, I can really kill myself sometimes…
Can someone give me some advice/data on her command throw? Like how fast is it, is it throw techable, when best to use it…I end up using it mostly as combo ender and shadow combo ender, but I should be able to use it better during other situations, so I can use those moment for a damage ender. At the moment trying to better use the anti air one. And off course I need to start learning how to counter break
I think Mira is a rather strong character. She’s fun to play and can lead to some interesting and memorable matches.
But ask a professional if they’d stake their tournament life on such a swingy character and they’d likely just shake their heads.
With that in mind and the difficulty there is in mastering her you can put the same time in with Jago or Fulgore and get better results. Hell I’d argue that these days you can probably put in the same time with Sadira and get phenomenal results if you want a hard to master character.
If she was toned down a touch both in terms of damage she takes and damage she does she’d likely become more popular both among casuals and professionals but as it is she’s more for a dedicated base. Right now she’s a lot of glass and a lot of cannon. Which is fine if you’ve already put a ton of time into her. Not so much when you haven’t and other characters offer similar things for better results.
I think Maya is a lot better in Season 3 on the whole. Giving her decent damage rather than making her rely on a cashout ender was a huge change and makes her is more fun to play as and against IMO.
Right, it just doesnt feel like the same game anymore. Everything is now juggles, keep juggling, cash out into launcher, flip out reset…juggles.
Or stagger, stagger, stagger… once chance break…launch, juggle keep juggling…oh wait I recognize this set up im gonna break his manual juggle right here…COUNTER BREAKER!!!
I liked the old way, …I block your attack, now its my turn and you have 2 or more opportunities to break my auto double or linker.
Now on the low to mid level the game still plays this way. But on the high competitive level it no longer resembles this style. Its really 75% juggles and there are times when I never even see and auto double or linker LOL
I consider that the player’s mindsets, not the game’s design. Me and others have already gone into this multiple times on other threads so I won’t bore you with the details.
But I have many reasons to believe that S3’s design does not encourage one-chance setplay and resets any more than previous seasons.
How has this changed exactly? This part doesn’t really align with the rest of your post.
