Would you say that my stuff is watchable?
Funny how at first he was waking up mashing everything and then your forced him to play at your pace. Then I donât get why you started wind kicking everything lol.
The problem I see is players doing stuff, not caring about the other player. That puts me off because it makes them unpredictable, in a way. And I donât like that mindset in a way I feel it doensât help me to improve as a player.
So better I find players that want to fight me =)
1 Like
But hereâs the thing: thereâs a failure to look at the long term benefits as opposed to short term.
Whatâs the end difference between someone who landed a counter breaker and 60% into a hard knockdown and someone who did three short consecutive hard knockdown combos and got a total of 60%? The answer is nothing. So I donât feel this is a question of whatâs âeasyâ. In a certain sense, it may actually be more risky in certain situations to play the latter way, because there are other instances in which the opponent can escape the sequence and take less overall punishment as a result.
I suppose itâs up to the player as to what kind of risks they wish to take, but saying that the game encourages either play is wrong. Thereâs player freedom and players have decided to play the âboringâ way because they only believe that way works.
1 Like
I love playing this game but the offline competitive scene is dull as ditchwater. Sorry folks, but itâs always the same crowd in top 8, playing the same characters in the same way. Also everybodyâs kind of nice to each other, very esports, not enough thuggery, not enough personalities, not enough drama.
1 Like
There are few things more ridiculous than videogame âthuggeryâ. Just gonna put that out there.
7 Likes
I imagine the slow change in top players is also dragging tournaments down. Unfortunately, weâre a small community, so thereâs not much we can do about that.
Playing setplay 1-chance in boring to you, but clearly others feel differently. I donât make the rules nor do I defend the current current âboringâ state that competitive play is at other than to say clearly something is working someone.
I guess I should have clarified that the way I feel about it. Iâm just talking about what I personally enjoy watching in tournaments.
Iâve always said that if something is working for you, you shouldnât change it. But that doesnât mean I canât express my distaste as a spectator.
I cant 100% agree with you there but from what i played its easier to reverse the momentum in Ki because of how fast pace and offensive it is you can go from being in the corner getting mixed up to now the opponent is in the corner getting mixed up in a matter of seconds. So why not fish for the lockout or guess breaker and take that more reliable and quicker 60% then take 4 one chance 15% combos and hope they donât get out. The both seem like big risks to me. Since you and other are very good at the game you should be able to win neutral if they break your combo. It is not like S1 or S2 where you got knocked down, no you both stand in a almost equal situation. Also what we presume whats coming in 3.6 that would be an ever bigger incentive to actually play the combo game. But that is how i look at it. What do you think?
My interest in KI tournaments has waned as seemingly half the player base turned into crazies over things like counter breakers ânot workingâ. I just can only take so much of a scene treading water whilst players expect devs to fix their own problems, especially when many of those problems are thoroughly dissected by smart people like Infil and demonstrated to be pretty much non-existent.
To be fair though, Iâve just plain missed a bunch of tournament streams because I live on the other side of the world and they didnât align with times when Iâd usually bother to look on Twitch for something to watch. My bad, I guess.
Sounds like you just donât like to watch zoning. Thatâs fine I guess, but itâs a problem youâll have to deal with in any game that succeeds at character variety. You should probably just learn to respect the skill that goes into zoning, and take an interest in the challenge of picking it apart as the one being zoned.
Anyway, maybe the real problem is that the game has active support from devs who are engaged with the community, so someone who feels â â â â â â off by the lot of their favourite character in the game can jump on twatter and shout at Keits to buff their character and delete these other characters they donât like, and then sorta boycott the game whilst still hate-streaming it and dropping in on online tournaments to put â â â â on the game and the devs, because the combat design team might not eventually fold, but at least itâs not the â â â â â â entitled playerâs fault that the game is stacked against their main. Meanwhile, people will flock to a lopsided game full of unblockables and infinites and all sorts of broken â â â â if the devs are restricted by licensing issues from touching the game and there are characters from their favourite childhood comic books in there, because the game is what it is and nothing, not even their toxic indigance, will change that. Theyâll suck it up and play top tier, or spend a bunch of time in the lab and try to develop tech to make their mains work, theyâll have those deep breakthrough moments where a higher echelon of play reveals itself to them, and then theyâll call the game the best game ever and demand at every opportunity that Capcom make a sequel thatâs every bit as broken as the current game.
Itâs the Street Fighter game, and Sony dumped a pile of money on the tournament scene, so itâs not exactly surprising. Itâs not like it had fierce competition for the top spot, either: MKX squandered its chance, KI crawled through a hellscape of externally-caused curses to even be where it is now, Tekken refuses to even launch, KoF is just about completely irrelevant these days, Xrd is an anime game, Mahvel was completely abandoned on the developer end until nowâŠ
I think youâre ignoring all of the times that the vortex play doesnât work out, where a player runs their setplay and the defense guesses right and obliterates it, or guesses kinda okay and thereâs a scramble or a staring contest or something. Those are just a part of the game apparently, people are happy to view oki in terms of the damage it nets when it connects but theyâll view combo play in terms of the consequences when the combo gets broken, despite breakers being far less punishing than not having your setplay work out.
It comes down to whether youâre going to get more damage on average from extending that combo beyond the first breakable hit than you are from your oki. Given that the fail rate on oki (revert to neutral which is equivalent to a breaker, getting DPâd or opened up yourself which is worse) is worse for the offense than the typical outcome of a breaker (the payoffs for the offense on a ~50/50 guess-break are something like +20% on a lockout and +0% on a breaker), bailing early on every combo opportunity you get is senseless. KI characters often have great pressure and dirty oki, but itâs not as profitable as the combo state.
3 Likes
We need more âThuggeryâ huh?
IM ON IT 
4 Likes
I personally think it will affect it very little. The people who are afraid of the combo game will remain afraid of the combo game, and their reward when theyâre inevitably guess broken will be negligible. The players that play the longer game will continue to play the longer game, and will probably wind up netting their kills a bit faster on average. But overall, the broad strokes of the game wonât change that much. People play the way they play because they like their playstyle, and I donât think that a mild change to PD will entice them to go into longer combos if they wonât wait to confirm lockouts now into 15-20% extra damage.
I do think the post-break scrambles should be an interesting twist, but I think the general flow of the combo game itself will probably remain much the way it is now.
1 Like
Yeah I noticed that lol no idea what I was thinking. 
1 Like
Ridiculous or not, it makes for compelling stories. For example, when 2 players are in a top 8 match and we know they had a 1 grand money match the previous evening. Or this sort of stuffâŠ
I wouldnât say that is necessarily a fair assessment of my issue with those characters. Zoning is not the issue I have. Although I find myself annoyed by run-away Fulgore players or Glacius player with the tight defense, I find that much different than vortex setups by Arbiter players or the constant harassment of Gargos with two minions. Footsies no longer matter when a grenade causes a stagger state and you are worried about a fast command grab or you have to deal with threats and portal punches.
Now, Iâve defeated people using those characters. It isnât as though I have no idea how to counter them or handle them. I just donât have fun playing against them. Conversely, I lost 3-10 to an Omen player last night, but I still had fun and recognized my own deficiencies (eg. forgetting what Omenâs auto-doubles looked like).
Sometimes it just feels non-stop. Does Kan-Ra really need a flip-out when he has a command grab that causes a ground bounce and a recapture? And if he has a sand trap underneath you, you may not feel that jumping is the best option.
I wanted to bring up one last point before taking my leave of absence from this thread and iâll just quote you here just because.
Whether people agree/disagree with which is the more optimal play in Killer Instinct, I think itâs truly hard to argue that oki in this game just comes very easily; opening someone up in this game is not like opening someone up in different fighting gamesâŠitâs easy because of the fact you have combo breakers. This is something important to keep in mind when discussing counter breakers and such to 1-chance vortex. If it wasnât so easy to open people up, we would definitely find players going for longer combos because they would have less opportunities to deal damage and would want to capitalize in the few that they do. Counter breakers are reads, you can go hours of playing or even days (if your luck is bad) theoretically without landing a single counter as apposed to not being able to land a single hit on your opponent if not numerous times going forward. I love doing long fancy Orchid juggles with Orchid, but they do minimal damage give tons of break chances.
Again Iâm not gonna argue one way or the other because it is what it is.
*shrug * F-Champ being an â â â â â â â doesnât do anything for me. Being dickish doesnât automatically make you interesting or create a compelling story, it just means thereâs a dickish guy out there whoâs good at videogames and has a much higher opinion of himself than he should.
And yes, I know that Champ is playing a role. Itâs just a role that I find ridiculous on its face.
9 Likes
Iâm still waiting for an eyedol in the top 5 at EVO or hell any tourneyâŠ
Iâm sorry, thatâs one of the silliest arguments Iâve heard in a long time.
With all the crazy plus frame normals, half screen unreactable (and safe) special moves, teleports, easy meaties, and general shenanigans that comprise KIâs offense, you think that combo breakers are what make opening people up easy? Really?
1 Like
I know that but if Iâm confident that I can win neutral why not go for longer combos. It seems like people are not confident in their neutral game and rather go for mix ups hoping the oponents doesn"t get out. That seems like backwards thinking for a fighting game to me. I always thought having a good neutral was better than using all these mix up and tech but maybe Iâm just stubborn in my thinking.