Not all of them. Last time I checked, TJ’s shoot toss command grab has a slow startup and really good reach, so I imagine many characters won’t be able to get out of the way in time with their backdash (again, varies with character), as they’d get hit on the recovery of their own backdash because of the slow startup that TJ has on his command grab, which would basically just ignore the initial 8 frames of throw invulnerability.
From neutral frames (after TJs backfist) I tested Aganos, Glacius and Hisako to see if they were grab punishable after a backdash and the only one that was punishable was Aganos with 3+ chunks.
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With proper timing, all backdashes would avoid shoot toss. What defines “proper” timing is a bit wonky because of how slow shoot toss is, but it doesn’t change the fact that backdashes have invincibility for however long that window is (8 frames I think?). The only grabs in the game that will hit a backdash done with “proper” timing are the command grabs that are super active, like possession or annihilation. All others will whiff against a properly timed backdash.
Because of how dash properties vary among the cast it is not always wise to backdash out of things, but the option is always “technically” there when we’re talking about throws (sans possession/annihilation).
Now, you’re only confusing me. When I stated that a backdash may not work against shoot toss, I was saying it with the understanding that they were both started at the exact same time (and with both characters perfectly adjacent to 1 another). It also seems to me like you’re saying that possession and annihilation still work against backdashes despite the 8-frames of throw invulnerability (in that they’ll still hit during those 8 frames)… I’m guessing I’m wrong in understanding what you’re saying here though, so please clarify if that’s the case.
The proper time to backdash against shoot toss isn’t exactly on the move’s startup (because as you noted, that command grab has quite a bit of it), but some vaguely defined point after TJ lunges. When exactly that would be would be dependent on spacing I imagine, but if timed correctly, a backdash will avoid shoot toss. Shoot toss takes a while to become active, but it isn’t active for especially long. Backdashes do avoid it.
It’s not that possession or annihilation will hit during the invincible frames of the backdash, just that they both go on for so long (and remain close enough to the opponent) that once the defender comes out of his backdash he still sitting in “throw” range and gets caught on the recovery frames of his dash.
Okay, so what you’re doing is throwing in variables into my otherwise controlled example, which is something I find quite odd, because with the way you said it, it applies to just about every throw, because of course you can avoid any throw using a backdash using the correct amount of spacing and/or backdashes. My example, and really every example involving a throw, should assume that both players are adjacent to each other, as that’s usually where throws are usually used. 
As for possession and annihilation, I find your explanation here even funnier, simply because you used the exact same explanation I used for TJ’s shoot toss that you were just trying to counter-argue in your last post. 
The point Infil was trying to make is just that backdashes have invincible frames. All backdashes, without exception. That’s the only point I’m addressing - the specifics of your experiment are not relevant to that core argument.
Not really. Shoot toss is weird only to the extent that it takes a while to actually hit the opponent. It is not particularly active, and is thus no different in principle from any other grab versus a well-timed backdash (it misses). Possession and annihilation are special because they are active for inordinate amounts of time, meaning they will beat any backdash attempt clean, period, regardless of how you try to time your backdash. That is why these are unique.
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- Tech the throw
- Hit them
- Jump
- Backdash
- Stand outside of throw range
- Use throw invulnerable moves
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Why do people just like… say stuff?
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Even if you do the backdash BEFORE they perform them, giving them time to say, I don’t know… Neutral jump into punish? 
I don’t know Marble. I think some people just like to see their words on the screen - it’s the internet equivalent of talking just to hear the sound of one’s own voice 
Well in that case why back dash then…simply Nuetral jump
Oh, you forum hipster, you.
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Well… I don’t know if that was really the core argument.
Here is what OP posted:
To which @GalacticGeek answered:
And finally @Infilament said:
but while Infil’s answer was technically correct, I don’t think it answered the original point GalacticGeek was makin. When a character is waking up usually the move we do to counter anything he does is a read, meaning we don’t wait to see what actually happened. Backdash is a valid option to counter wake up grab but some grabs will still work if you do the backdash as a read on the opponent’s wake up, which I believe was the original point in the first place.
Of course, unless we limit this to only normal throws (done with LP+LK), in which case I believe a backdash will always work even as a read.
I was trying to avoid misinformation, though.
Instead of “some backdashes can’t beat throws on wakeup”, let’s say why they can’t. The answer is not because “some backdashes aren’t invincible to throws”, it’s because “some backdashes have lots of recovery so you will avoid the throw but then get punished by something else”, or “some throws have insanely long number of active frames, so they will outlast your backdash’s throw invulnerability”.
If you just say “some backdashes can’t beat throws on wakeup” then some people might read that and make a wrong conclusion about how backdashes work. I was just trying to make sure people say what they mean in an unambiguous way, that’s all.
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My original response to the OP was that throws beat nothing - a properly timed meaty attack will always win in this situation.
My second post was simply to co-sign Infil’s point, which is that backdashes have invincibility that will avoid throws, without exception.
I wasn’t trying to address neutral jumps, reversals, or any other number of items. I’d already given my response regarding strikes beating throws when done meaty.
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[quote=“xLCTOxRibShot, post:1, topic:10240, full:true”]
A way I would say to improve on this, is have the KV meter build up faster on certain moves or strengths[/quote]
Some moves like Aganos’ stomping (the one where he walks forward) builds up KV faster the more repeatedly he does it. I can see this happening for Shadow Jago’s DPs but I can also see why it wouldn’t be there as well. The move doesn’t really last in time to be a huge threat for lockout combos when juggled, and gives you enough time to see when to break with based on the first hit. Plus I think they made a Season 3 change that stops it from being chained into each other but don’t take my word on that.