Gate Keeping

I remember Yatagarasu - I really enjoyed watching it when it was on WNF :slight_smile:

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It’s unfortunate, but you may have a point. I think the tipping point though was when FGC started accomodating the Smash community, who is the most self-centered group of them all. They demand things like VIP practice areas at multigame FGC events and run overtime on mainstage, but have a years worth of exclusive events wherein FGC is wholly unwelcome. It’s fucked up.

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It was always so sick seeing Chris G body everyone free with Shimo even though she had been nerfed from previous versions!

@MDMMORNING To be honest, I think it started way before that. I think it started when EVO became more about selling tickets than it was dedicated to letting people play and enjoy fighting games with this year being one of the absolute worst EVOs ever. There were no casual stations and casuals had to be held in peoples rooms. I think that is extremely absurd for a tournament as big as that to force people to do that. The only other time you could play casuals was when a station wasn’t being used but that was always at the end of the day when not a lot of time was left. Any tournament that is only dedicated to the competition of the top 8 players of a game without also making sure people from all over the world are able to enjoy fighting games with each other is wholly anti-FGC to me. It’s why I’ll always put Combo Breaker as the best tournament of the year. It has 24/7 casual stations and will give the stage to any game if they want to do exhibitions and the like. Like how both KI and Skullgirls got stream time just for silly exhibitions and to have fun overall.

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O.o I didn’t know that about EVO this year. No bueno.

Sometimes I just can’t control my soapbox. The way the Smash community conducts themselves w/in the greater FGC really gets under my skin.

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I can’t get too mad at Smash anymore (as much as I may dislike it as a fighting game but that’s a different topic altogether) seeing as how I feel that’s what SFV is doing with the Capcom Pro Tour. I feel that if Capcom could, they would make all of their events SFV/Marvel exclusive as that would put the most eyes on their events and so on. Same with KIWC. I know Brandon and everyone else that works on it would love to see more Kombo Klash San Antonio events instead of being thrown a small bone at larger events like SCR. Nothing wrong with all of this but I just feel that eventually, there’ll only be tournaments that are 1-2 games only since people don’t interact with other communities as much anymore.

I’m sorry, this is all completely off-topic! I don’t mind discussing this thing in private and apologize to the OP for derailing the thread!

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Uggh, god, don’t remind of EVO’s horrible setup…

If I wasn’t so excited to be at my first offline tournament and meeting the community, I would’ve been pissed standing around all day.

Heya, regarding the jump ins comparison, do you think you can link a KI tourney or two for reference in this thread? I wanted to read this on the morning bus ride and was curious as to which tourneys you were mainly referring to. If not, I’ll try to find em myself. :slight_smile:

@franciscapra aka SE1Z3

Well whats the reason? Is it because of the chat? Because I cant stand the chat and I turn it off.

And @TexAceFGC… Im not trying to be rude, but I used to root fr you in every tournament the last 2 years and you have been going 0-2 in just about all of them that I have watched. Ive sort of given up on yu after seeing you at AB7. Is that due to fundamentals or gate keeping? You might want to get that top 32 spot so you can qualify for KIWC if you havent already.

What did you place at SA combo clash?

Lol. Maybe not intended, but I do think that was kinda rude :joy:

He placed pretty well at EVO, for instance, and I can attest that he’s still a great player.

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No doubt! great player indeed…but blaming on the community as if its their fault…ehhhh…dont agree. The ranked has been fixed for months…not sure what community fundamentals have to do with KIWC ranking.

Ive always rooted for Tex Ace…every tournament. Im just not really understanding what this thread is truly getting at? What do we want to take from this thread?
We’ve established ranked is fixed. So what else can be done to qualify Tex Ace for KIWC? Win 8BB, Win Top32, Win a qualify tournament, win at last chance qualify KIWC?

Talking like this is what makes you come off as rude.

Fundamentals?

You mean taking shenanigans and that stuff and playing with what you have?
I understand anti airing, blocking (even cross ups and jump ins), whiff punishing (footsies).

Ok, so this is my problem: In this game in particular I get some trouble punishing jump ins. Probably because I’m not controlling my space optimaly to do so. Sometimes I do sometimes I don’t. But yes, there are a lot of players that jump in for free, maybe too much. When I have an invencible dp character I’m in heaven sometimes.

Second: the match up knowledge. I play certain characters, usually I like the ones with good normals and decent dp. But then I tried yesterday playing a very neutral game with TJ Combo. Even though I won in the last second (vs a very strong Orchid in neutral that would punish a lot of stuff). How on Earth can I play footsies with that character?? my normals were negative most of the time. I can’t anti air easily, I can’t find a proper blockstring. My Gosh, how do play neutral with that character at all? OK, match up knowledge.

Third: I’m a little tired with people bashing the game on twitch over and over for no real reason (eg: a person doing constantly lows and getting punished for that with a move that crushed lows and telling to the other guy he was yolo playing and not even going for that, come on…) .
Here I’m to blame too. I have done it myself, but I’m trying to stop. It’s not the game itself that produce this huge ammount of salt but the way people play it sometimes is what gets me. There are some things I still struggle in this KI. The gimmicky way of playing, not being able to punish properly because everything looks like and infitine postitive blockstring (Cinder I’m looking at you) and some heavy match up knowledge I can not reproduce in the lab because they are advanced…It’s a bit frustrating at times, I tend to check the moves alone and some stuff, I’ve spend my time in the lab so the other part goes to the player itself. EG: I know the Jago match up, it depends on the player alone if he wins or lose now.
The funny part is I get to know how to punish most of the stuff but then I can’t do it because I can’t react to it. My reflexes got a lot to do and maybe I’m too way rusty. My brain react but my hands…Nah, that’s very sad and has nothing to do whit KI at all.

But the thing that bothers me the most is people getting away with dumb stuff. By dumb stuff is when they play bad, really bad but win. My preformance vs careless players is horrible at times. When I get to fight a more fundamental player it’s different. They are a threat and they are actually watching what I’m doing. Those matches are great! either I lose I can recognize the quality of the match.

For instance, yesterday I fought a Riptor that would mostly do back-forward + kick and fireball. He would wake up with that and when I attacked him repeat. So he won the first one. I got so upset for someone playing like that. I just don’t get it! I couldn’t punish him correctly because I expected to punish a different Riptor gameplan, that’s on me… so sad!!. That was his whole playn. So once I got the knockdown I wouldn’t let him get up again. That was it. But this is the most shocking thing: he was a Killer rank :sob:

That sums it up, I don’t like playing ranked because I get salty over players giving a damn and maybe because something else. The competitive mindset in ranked is bad for me so I play just to fool around and try different characters once in a while.

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I agree mostly with the gatekeeping aspect. Rank in S1 meant a lot more. The current system is pretty terrible as it show’s very little indication of player skill. If you get anyone under Killer they are usually new players and in Killer you play people of all skill levels it’s insane. I can match up against a Pro player like Storms, or I can matchup against some random guy who made killer rank mashing Orchid Heavy slide without ever understanding how punishable the move is.

Also to a point that @Infilament and @STORM179 made about S1 being so punishing as not to allow for players to experiment with other characters. Isn’t that how it should be? You’re playing ranked, the competitive mode of the game, shouldn’t you be using your most competitive characters? Isn’t messing around with characters what exhibition is designed for? I mean I don’t disagree with that’s how it works now, hell I hit random select in ranked sometimes because it matters so little.

I think it comes down to two very different demographics. The casuals and the more hardcore competitive players. Depending on the system one side is less satisfied. With S1 there were achievements and ranks a casual player felt were unattainable. In S2 and S3 the competitive players have no sense of accomplishment as it’s not really that significant of an achievement to get Killer rank. I think it comes down to what nets the game more business and my guess is catering to the casual fanbase is the answer. This isn’t exclusive to KI, winning is more prevalent in games in general, everybody gets a trophy, and penalties for failure are pretty much non existent. Anyways, I’ve gotten side tracked and started to ramble.

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Lol no I haven’t gone 0-2 except one time and that was at last year’s World Cup.
I’ve been playing at other offline events but have been using new characters every time to test some stuff out.
I haven’t qualified yet but the few points I have, I’ve used 6 other characters other than Glacius. Just trying get as much MU knowledge in before the WC but I do plan on making it in even if I have to do last chance qualifiers.
I haven’t been much in the loop for KI competitively since Tx Showdown honestly. What I experienced there which was legit cheating sort of gave me a bad taste for the tour. If you were there , you know what happened and if you weren’t well that’s too bad.
Work schedule and family has conflicted with me ever playing in 8BBD or KIPL but I still lab as much as I can when I get a chance . I’m finally going to take my own advice I’ve given to a few players and that’s going with a character no one knows the MU too. I told Sleep to learn Gargos cause no one will know how to fight him at EVO. So be ready to see some Eyedol action in a few months if we don’t get another new character before then.

Oh and I didn’t go to Kombo Klash SA cause it was announced a few days before the event and was on a Sunday instead of the usual Saturday to early Sunday. Not enough time to request off from work.

I’m a pro player? Momma, we made it! :persevere:

To answer this question though:

No, I don’t think this at all. I’m one of those rare players who actually thinks there’s a lot more to be learned from Ranked than Exhibition, so long as you aren’t already super-high level. If your win rate in Ranked isn’t 70+%, then I think you should still be playing it.

Exhibition teaches you single MU’s against a single opponent. Ranked teaches you to fight a variety of characters played in a near infinite amount of styles. There’s a lot of value to having that experience, of having the chance to fight against both the nuttiest nuts and the most super-solid players. Driving all experimentation with characters into Exhibition is self-defeating, because the skills needed to have a character do well against a variety of players (adaptability/flexibility, extensive MU knowledge) aren’t things the mode is very good at providing. You shouldn’t be afraid to experiment in Ranked because the system is so punishing it invalidates countless hours of prior work. Ranked is exactly where you need to be to really build up the fundamental knowledge base you’ll need to actually take that character and level them up.

I like that the current system provides a “floor” that lets people breathe a little and say “ok, I’m going to try something different now.” Absent that floor, I wouldn’t have learned many of the characters I now play at a reasonably solid level.

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stop

Haha. Hyperbole indeed. But seriously, how many cr.LP could S1 Wulf do before he was out of range to do more? It wasn’t until S2 that they increased the pushback on it.

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TBH… There was no reason for me to play ranked in season 1. Due to it’s ranking system

And now 2 seasons later… I’m finding that to be true again.

It’s sounds to me it’s more of a flaw with exhibition not having a post match option of Search for new Opponent.

It seems exhibition and ranked pretty much appeal to the same demographic. There’s the demographic like Texas, and myself who would love a more competitive meaningful mode that’s getting hung out to dry since exhibition and ranked are so similar to each other.

Even then I still don’t know if I agree with you. You’re basically saying ranked provides you with variety and exhibition doesn’t because you play the same person. I’ve played a fair bit of both and it’s not uncommon for me to run a set with someone in exhibition who is proficient with multiple characters.

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A single player being good with multiple characters isn’t the same as getting to play a multitude of different people. Yes, I have a Jago, and I don’t play my Jago like I play my Hisako. But you’re still matching up against Storm179 if I play you with my Jago, and that comes with a certain set of skills and proclivities that are uniquely mine. I can teach you something about that fight, certainly, but you’re still fighting me.

That is what Ranked provides that Exhibition does not. When I’m fighting my 13th Jago in a row in Ranked I’m not just encountering one person’s take on the game as a whole - I’m learning how to mold and adapt my own style to accommodate and capitalize on a variety of different ways to approach the game, at both the micro and macro levels. People’s overall philosophies bleed into all their characters, so the chance to encounter many of those different philosophies in quick succession is helpful to building adaptability. Playing sets teaches me to pick you apart as a player, whether you’re running your Spinal, your Maya, or your Kim.

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