Gargos’ wakeup options really sucks, but I don’t think he loses to Eagle in this aspect. Why do you think that?
Maybe because Gargos hithox is bigger? Dunno. I haven’t played Eagle much so I can’t say, but many agree is worse than Gargos. I have no idea if you can use the bird to cover yourself in your wake up. Maybe both have bad wakeup options, with no winner
Eagle can deploy self destruct with his bird on wakeup. This is only countered with a true meaty which stuff the bird. Either way, it leaves the bird in a long cooldown.
Gargos is more prone to cross ups due to his large size and eagle at least has the bird bomb which sends the opponent full screen.
1- Bigger Hitbox. Some things can hit Gargos in a way that cannot hit chars with smaller hitboxes. Example: Rash combos with normal >>> tongue diagonally up >>> air normal.
2- Eagle at least can press down 3k to make his bird perform the “suicidal dive”. Although it’s not as invencible wake up option, it can trade with most meatys.
3-Also, Eagle Shadow slide has a very quick startup (don’t remember exactly but i believe that it’s 3 frames - correct me if i’m wrong) that can in some situations beat some meaty attacks with longer startups (like a meaty Jago overhead) in a correct read. It’s not a invencible reversal but like i said, it can be usefull in a correct read.
Gargos only options on wake up are backdash or teleport into instinct, which aren’t exactly safe or can be used anytime.
I’m curious to think why it would be considered a read. It seems more as an unsafe commitment then anything (kinda like Sadiras Shadow Demon Blade). It doesn’t counter anything and relies on your opponent messing up on a meaty. I don’t really think it qualifies as a read, more as a really bad gamble (even though reads are technically a gamble, i don’t think this could be considered as one.
I think eagle and gargos are tied. Eagle wake up sucks. There only thing he has is instinct and guessing. Gargos has instinct. But his instinct is better in the wake up game.
If you alternate between throw and horizontal moving meaty eagle will struggle hard. At least with gargos he can’t medium psycho crusher if the meaty is only Annl upper body hitbox.
I think Eagle is worse than Gargos on knockdown. Gargos has the bigger hitbox to be sure, but he’s also got some solid reversal AA options, a very good backdash, and throw invincible command grabs. Heavy reckoning is a balls reversal, but it is meterless and fully invul until he reappears. Then once you put him in instinct he’s actually very hard to pressure unless you manage to sweep him on activation.
Knock Eagle down and what’s he going to do? Backdash? Call down his bird that will then be on cooldown and nerf his pressure (and will trade unfavorably with some stuff)? Wakeup shadow slide has zero physical invincibility (Sadira’s demon blade at least crushes lows), and his instinct has no defensive utility beyond the screen freeze. I think Eagle is easily the worst character in the game on knockdown.
A “read” is just a guess that works out. You are correct that wakeup shadow slide is indeed a terrible guess against a competent opponent opponent though.
For example, i use to play a lot with my former teammate @STLemonHunter. He likes to use after a hardknockdown Fulgore meaty overhead + medium laser for a Mix up over/low. Since i know that, everytime i see that overhead coming i use the shadow slide to counter his overhead and open him.
But like i said this is a very situacional use. It’s not recomendable mash this on wake up as a reversal.
It’s not a option except for the case that i mentioned above.
Shadow slide counters Fulgores overhead? It sounds more of a problem with Lemons meaty timings.
If your avoiding the lasers (i didn’t think you could perform a shadow move in that blockstun) then thats a read for using a projectile invincible move.
Still don’t see the use of it on wakeup