Exploring inconsistent counter breakers

The whiff isnt a problem per say in game play but when you know you hit the manual right on the money and you get timing lock out and then it whiffs and you lock out…well something just isnt right there. Its just not quality game play.

Combine that with the timer not even showing up when you get counter broken and now you have 3 pieces of lock out timers that all are not working perfectly.

Plus the hit stop/ hit stun shortage that Infill has proven above…it all starts to add up and its not quality that were are used too.

Now I know its early in the build and all things will get corrected… so saying its not an issue and just leaving it wouldn’t be right. Maybe they dont see these things?

Whats an issue to me obviously isnt to you.

Since this season, I refuse to counter-break. I just opt to get broken to avoid being punished. Its excruciating to know you should have gotten the counter-break to finish the game but due to inconsistency the opponent will take the win.

This definitely happened in S2. Nothing related to this part of the system has changed.

When the team gets some time, we will investigate some of the suggestions here for improving the feel of this. A counterbreaker already enforces a maximum hitstun duration on the opponent to avoid safe counterbreakers. It does not, however, enforce a minimum, and because of the way the combo system is built, can cause some of the oddities Infil has pointed out in this thread.


I was speaking more to the shortened hit stop or block stun (Not sure of the correct term) . Now it seems the opponent returns to a blocked state much faster than before…I can feel this with Omen predominately as that’s who I mainly use, although I do use most of the cast to break the monotony.
Could be a an Omen with less hit stun on all his moves? I feel it with Fulgore as well.

Am I wrong that they are not returning to a blocked state quicker than before? (Nothing to do with Counter breakers and definitiey no offense to the team )

Am I just crazy? lol

The hitstop change that was mentioned in the patch notes is a reduction of the added freeze frames added to both characters when you hit the opponent when you do a manual, it isn’t a change to the hitstun you inflict on the opponent when you hit them.

Omen in s3 did get a decrease in the hitstun caused by his slide openers but not much else should have changed really.

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I pretty much do mostly manuals…so maybe thats why Im feeling a return to block more quickly? I dont know…I just know I see the opponent blocking my linkers and getting shadow counters off accidentally mid combo and whiffed auto double at times as well.

I feel like if I dont buffer my move in ahead of time it will whiff and they will block mid combo…Thats the best way I can explain it in words.

Anyway…thats off topic of the counter breakers…sorry everyone.

I don’t think you’re crazy. There’s less hit stop on moves now and I think this factors in to some of these things. So some things that can and did occur but were uncommon are just more common now. The reduced hitstop, coupled with the changes to the counter breaker rules have definitely made “just missed it” counter breakers much more frequent - even though they did occur in earlier seasons.

The same is true for “unintentional resets”. People are constantly dropping combos, especially during lights, and the either getting blocked and wondering “wait, what just happened” or starting new unintentional combos. This can happen multiple times in a single combo - and when you combine some of these it can be very “wtf?!?” For example, someone gets locked out in lights but the offensive player doesn’t maintain the combo so you get a quick lockout into block or the mashing defender starts a combo or even the offensive player starts a new combos and then gets quickly broken even though the game just said “lockout.” None of these things are more or less broken than in the past, they are just more common.

I’m not entirely sure that anything needs to be done about this, but it does cause a lot of confusion.

Infil’s video is very interesting to watch, and this is something I never realized. It does seem like a reasonable idea to try to have more uniformity in the counter break window. I’m not sure I have a coherent thought on how to do that. I’m biased toward wanting to see more counter breakers and I definitely appreciate the improvements from the patch. It still seems like there’s a lot of risk even associated with good counter break decisions. But again I’m not sure I have a good suggestion.

Other than that it’s clear that the AI/routine in practice mode could use an adjustment in order to allow people to experiment with counter breakers. Especially in light of the issue with timing shown in the original video.

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It happens with omen

Anybody ever think this is an online “problem” because of the 4 frame delay in online play. Might be something we have to deal with. You got people with potato connections on top of that delay. Lots of ■■■■ is gonna miss. I might be wrong. Just an idea.

@Infilament @TheKeits i wonder if this issue affects when i want to counterbreak on tj tremor. alot of the time i feel like the window of catching someone with a counterbreaker after a tremor is too small and far smaller than when grounded.i have tested it ,u literally have to do a counterbreaker at around the same time as the person breaks but if u do it early and they break nothing happens ,they get off free, but on the ground in that same scenario a counterbreaker would have been triggered

No this happens to me against the AI the most since the AI can return to block much quicker as its reactions are inhuman. Plus Infills video is against the AI

This happens to me since season 1 , but now , for some reason i dont know it happens a lot more.
i hope that if there is a problem they fix it.

I just hope they find a work around soon so I actually feel comfortable throwing out breakers again. I got grabbed right out of a counter breaker against someone mashing last night. Stuff like that can ■■■■■ up a whole game

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