A complete exposé on counter breakers: why they work, why they don't, and what you can do

I’ve touched on that here recently in the forums; you perhaps already know that I agree with you 100% here. Word of mouth is so, so very powerful.

And more to your point - this applies to people who aren’t in the public eye as well. Because there’s far more of them, and it will add up. Fast.

I’d also like to add that I’m currently in training mode, counter-breaking the hell out of some manuals. :smiley:

Here’s a community (not everyone) whining about a system they think is broken because they can’t adjust.

And here is a player who actually practices and fixes his own problems.

Ain’t that something…

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We are not worthy of your effort and graciousness :sob::open_hands:

OK - so three things I’ve observed practicing my counter-breaks:

  • Counter-breaking light manuals is some serious muscle memory adjustment, but totally doable once you get the motion down. I was nearly unable to do this on my TV - on my monitor it feels way easier. It feels like you are tapping the light manual on your way to the counter-break. Your finger hits the light attack button for what feels like a fraction of a fraction of a second. The alternate LK+MP input may make this easier for you if you play stick.

  • Some normals lend themselves to being counter-broken manuals than others. Experiment with crouching buttons.

  • Your best best on a straight up proven and consistently breaking on frame -1 opponent is just Opener/Counter-break. Why bother racing this doofus to the clock?

Also:

Infilluminati confirmed?

Nah - very best medicine for someone like that is opener->linker. Guaranteed timing lockout on anyone truly mashing frame 1 breaks, and less likely to fail cause this guy somehow managed to input a break before your hands could physically reach the counter break buttons fast enough after your opener :joy:

For what it’s worth, it is not that much different for light manuals than it was in S2, since that had something like 2 frames of hit stop + 4 extra frames. So you have to be about 6 frames earlier, which is quite a bit in game terms but as a dexterity exercise would still probably feel pretty close to “as fast as I can humanly do it”.

Also, you only have to hit the window on frame 1 if your opponent is also breaking on frame 1. If your opponent is slightly late (by chance, or intentionally), then it’s okay if you end up not actually hitting the first frame of the window with your counter break.

Yep.

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Ah, almost forgot. I left you a like, but felt I should say it “out loud” as well - great write up. You continue to do great work for this community :slight_smile::thumbsup:

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Hmm - never really had that problem. Maybe it’s just the characters I play LOL

And I realize now that as I was typing this I was practicing with Mira, looking at 72% and feeling rather satisfied with that :joy_cat:

Three heavy reaper linkers hurt REEL BAD

For sure. It only took me a few days spending a few hours to really get it consistently.

For what it’s worth, I’m practicing it two ways - with the break settings in the practice menu, and also recording a continuous stream of mash breaks then poking the dummy when they whiff from outside the range of the attack that the game renders from the break input. The second method is definitely more human and seems to be a bit more forgiving than the menu settings.

Great work dude. Love seeing stuff like this from the FGC.

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I agree. I have been saying that for months. Some of the streamers do just as much damage to the game as they do good.

On a side note. I didn’t even know that this counter breaker/combo breaker thing was that bug of an issue. Of course I guess when. You play for money “everything/anything” can be an issue.

I also love all the tips and things you do to help the community get better.

For the record, the Raam patch fixed the “inconsistent hit stun” issue. So now all break attempts that happen for the 24 frames following a counter breaker will get caught. That Thunder example in my first post saw the guy snap out of hit stun in around 6-7 frames. This works for all counter breaks, whether off a light manual or a heavy auto-double. They will be caught in hit stun for a minimum of 24 frames and a maximum of 30 frames.

This actually might mean that if you are used to throwing as a counter breaker punish, some of these might get snagged if you are too quick. More reason than ever to break that habit and do a better punish from the get-go! But you will always have time to punish a counter breaker… the maximum hit stun still applies, which leaves you with plenty of frames to land a punish starting with a fierce button, if you want it.

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Hey Infil, did the RAAM patch also fix the 8 frame delay lockout animation? Or does the 8-frame animation still exist?

Still exists.

Well, maybe with any luck a solution can be put in place to get it ready for EVO. Here’s hoping.

If they are working on a solution, I imagine it won’t be ready in time for EVO. My guess is this current patch is what we will play EVO on.

Ok so I’m confused, what’s the big problem here?

visually lockout appears AFTER whiffed counter breaker. That feels totally broken. The situation is not so rare. I actually experience this almost every match.
It may frustrate new and enrage skilled players.

looks like RAAM update did not fix this strange issue.

It’s a good question, and although @iDr01d has given a good answer I think there’s more to it. The real problem is that no one likes to lose. If you hit a counterbreaker and end up staring at a lockout symbol you are very likely to lose, even though you guessed correctly that your opponent would break. You were too slow but the feedback tells you that you were first - both aural and visual.

So, having lost and gotten all mad, people post and tweet things that are hyperbolic “that ■■■■ is broken!” And then when faced with the reality - they were just too slow, they double down “BS! That’s broken. Didn’t happen to me ever in S2!” Etc etc.

I have lots of sympathy. It’s incredibly frustrating - more frustrating than missing the execution on almost anything else (for reasons I can’t fully explain) and especially when you are locked in a close match (usually with some loudmouth, teabagging asshole) and a successful counterbreaker means you win but a late one means you lose (straight into a triple ultra). It’s not fun.

But at the end of the day, those are the rules of the game. Get your counter out there faster than the other guy or don’t get it out there at all. I still believe that fixing the misleading AC cues will help somewhat, but it’s not going to stop people from getting salty over this.

& People thought I was crazy when I said some of the manuals in this game could be reacted to. smh, I know I’m not crazy. . lol