I think it would be cool to have a Charge Type character in KI. If you’ve ever played SF, then you know that characters like Guile and Chun-Li use this play style.
We do have characters that have charge-lite attacks such as Sabrewulf’s Overpower or Orchid’s Rekka charge, but it would be cool to have a character that has specials that are chargeable.
Advantages:
Move Buffering. With a charge character, you have the ability to buffer a special while performing another attack. Usually the charge is for 2 seconds and then release. With Chun-li, her Kikokens and her general “super” attack was holding the stick back for two seconds and then hit forward + attack button. Her Spinning Bird Kick was holding down for 2 seconds and then hitting up + kick button.
When mastered you could chain some pretty crazy combos by buffering the charged attack into combos and other specials.
Disadvantage:
These type characters aren’t always super easy to pick up as their moveset is based upon strict timing versus a QCF motion.
Would anybody else like a Chun-li like character in KI?
Yeah, the idea of charge characters in KI has been brought up before, but it’s not been met with a lot of acceptance or positive reception. Plus the idea of a charge character in KI seems to actually put a character like that at a disadvantage given that back forward and down up style motions can already be executed in the game without any charge up at all, making the necessary 40-60 frame charge you have in SFV being a giant problem to use in any effective gameplan in KI, given the game’s speed and pacing.
You also have the problem like @Sasuke99I mentioned of how to make charge moves work as linkers, at which point if you remove the charge time for the linker version, it makes little sense to have it at all for the non-linker versions. On top of that, given that KI’s combo system functions on a fundamentally different mechanic, where SFV doesn’t have the auto-doubles and linkers, this type of execution heavy combo character doesn’t seem to fit well into the system, at least not without accommodating them in some heavy way to make up for it. At that point, it more or less feels like you’re forcing a jigsaw puzzle piece into a puzzle it doesn’t belong in or mesh well with the surrounding pieces.
Even going back to SF4 once in a while, I just don’t really see the point in charge mechanics at all, and in SFV even Capcom has started to devalue the charge mechanic to a point and gives characters with charge moves lower frame counts to full charge and even in some cases allows characters to wholly bypass the system. Bison for example in his V-Trigger can completely bypass charge times and execute multiple attacks in a row for damage much bigger than he could normally get from using his Super at times. I believe even Guile’s V-trigger helps him in some way bypass the charge mechanic as well.
The real thing to note is that charge moves in KI go against how the game is designed on a fundamental basis, in which most moves are simple execution, and the gameplan of how each character uses their tools is more integral than an execution barrier for skill and combos. Moreover, it also encourages a more highly defensive style play on the charge character’s part, but this goes counter to the higher offensive philosophy of gameplay in KI.
Charge moves are meant to be an “execution barrier”. They demand perfection, and if you get any nerves at all, you are very likely to mess them up. (Similar to performing 2 full circles in SF games.)
Execution barriers are exactly what this game is trying to run away from, and for good reason. I am VERY HAPPY that i was able to pick this game up and have fun FIRST, and LATER go back and work on execution. If it werent for that, i would never have gotten into the Fighting Game genre. (So in a way, that development decision changed my whole life )
HOWEVER…
Everything i have NOT wanted in this game… has come into this game in an AMAZING way that i never expected. Based on that, i BET Iron Galaxy could make a NEW type of charge character that kept the mentality of charge characters, but without the restrictions they put on the player. And that would be VERY FUN to try and play.
I agree a charge character could be cool given the ki touch. Though some people consider tj to be the closest thing to a charge character in ki.
Also I’d love a puppet character
I could see a charge character being reinvented in KI much like Mira is a reinvention of the glass cannon archetype in other games.
Moves could have explicit charge meters or animations which show how much charge has been built up on-screen – the amount of charge built up on charge characters in other games is common knowledge anyway, this would just be a way of making the mechanic less obnoxious and more flashy. Maybe some moves could be better or worse at different levels of charge, akin to Fulgore’s blade dash if Fulgore were able to block during the charge and not be committed to the move whilst charging it. Maybe the charge meter could gradually dissipate rather than being immediately wasted if not immediately used for a move, or it could even dissipate into meter and/or self-inflicted potential damage.
Above all I hope that a charge character in KI isn’t just a character who crouches or backwalks for a while before performing various specials, because I always thought that was a bad way of surfacing a mechanic that should never have been as prevalent as Street Fighter seems to have made it.
Well we have “charge” characters already in KI, they’ve just been simplified to fit with KI’s ease of access mentality at least that’s what the devs said. They’re “back forward” characters in this game, so I doubt we’ll see any real charge commands.
I have absolutely no desire for a charge character in KI. I have been trying to get into charge characters and they honestly do nothing for me and I find them extremely difficult to play. I don’t like the idea of “just play them like normal, but hold down back the entire time”. I know others will disagree, but I simply don’t have any fun at all with charge characters.
Charge characters could have a spot in a game like SF, but I belive they can’t fit in a high paced game like KI, considering the game mechanics.
TJ, Riptor or Cinder have BF motions and IMO they are the charge characters, and I love they took the MK route with that moves: you only have to input the move, without waiting any second of buffering
As a Guile/Deejay (and Urien) player, I found charge characters easier to control. I would love one. But even Capcom believes charge characters bring a certain degree of difficulty and play style with them.
On the old forums the devs even commented on the game’s accessibility and mentioned how charge moves are a barrier for some.
Anyway some interesting discussion on this topic in another thread here…
I don’t think a street fighter style charge character would work at all with the fast pace and projectile evading techniques of KI. I agree with @IronFlame’s points as well.
Instead, I think it could possibly work if it was a lot like Guilty Gear Xrd - characters with charge moves in that game only have one or two niche charge specials out of a large toolset of general-use motion specials, charge time is very low, and they are mainly used in blockstrings or setups so don’t necessitate defensive play. (It would still make things out-of-place when it comes to linkers and enders, though)
For instance in GG, Axl Low (zoner / hit and run guy) has a charge move used in the neutral or during blockstrings which is long-range, does good damage, pushes the opponent far away, and can be finished with a launcher. It’s offset by being low to the ground and thus punishable if the opponent jumps preemptively.
Potemkin (grappler) has an armoured charge special which is unsafe on block, but can be cancelled during startup for tic command grabs. It’s useful to hit-confirm strings or break pressure.
Venom (projectile rushdown) has 2 charge moves, but they’re both projectiles which are mainly used to bounce around other projectiles at different angles for a setup to safely approach and do mixups.
As a life long Chun-li main, I thoroughly enjoy charge type characters and to be honest if you have opponents that do nothing but back up and or crouch to do a charge attack, then they aren’t playing the character right. Generally with charging attacks, you buffer those attacks as you are performing other attacks. A cool combo that I used in SFIV with Chun was cross up attack (Down/Forward HK) > Cr. HP > Ex Spinning Bird Kick.
IF IG created a true charge character, that individual would have a KI twist of course, so it wouldn’t be an SF clone character, but a KI charge character.
KI already has some crazy unique character archetypes, I think a charge character would be a nice addition.
Would it be an easy character to learn… no… but then again neither is Sadira, Fulgore, Cinder, Aganos, Mira… ect ect.
The point of charge moves is not for them to be difficult to execute, the point is for a character to have access to moves that are (usually) strictly better than what motion characters have, but restricted by charge times. It’s also not uncommon for charge characters to have stronger-than-average normals. The most difficult part of playing charge characters is typically cancelling standing normals into down-up charge specials, and it’s rarely required to play the character effectively.
I think @Fnrslvr has a pretty decent take on how a charge character could work in KI. Keep the non-charge version of the move so you can still bust it out on demand, but gain additional benefits when the move is charged.
That’s really not how you’re supposed to play them.
That’s the only way I’d be okay with having a charge character. I like the cost / benefit of that trade off.
Personally, I’ve never found the upsides of charge moves to outweigh the obnoxiousness of not being able to do perform a move the second I want to perform it. But that’s just me. I get the desire to buffer moves and what not, and what that can mean for connecting moves. Still dislike it.
But if they had a regular, or slightly weaker than normal move that could be done with tapping, then a more powerful version that utilizes holding for that same move, I could maybe get behind that. I still don’t love the idea and I’d likely be less inclined to use that character, but if it were something that others really wanted and maybe it gets some SF fans interested, then so be it.
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