Oh…still pretty bad in my books for a slaughter. BUT…I’ll chalk it up to MU knowledge. Which bass didn’t seem to have much of as it clearly showed as I say again.
Bass almost won the first match against Gargos and was in the health lead about the entire match, but Sleep gradually adjusted and landed an impressive Shadow Counter at the end when things got closer. Second match was more one-sided, a lot of that due to Bass quickly losing 60-65% because he fell for two damage grapples and a reversal before Gargos even started summoning minions.
You can see it all here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odv-61BR8sI
Free armor??? I think you need to go watch Maximilian’s video on fighting game lingo because that armor is not free at all.
Gargos pays for that armor and pays for it dearly. He gives up his speed, every one of his jumps and literally his ability to block!!! All for armor that straight up fails against heavy attacks and throws???
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Isn’t gargos relatively new to tournaments though? So wouldn’t that mean that there’s still a lot of tech that people don’t know or are unfamiliar with? He’s not like jago or sabrewulf whom people know inside and out just give it time and you won’t see people struggling with those minions.
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No he couldn’t power devour the minions because sleep was playing up close the whole time. Meaning he would have stuffed him. There’s a reason bass didn’t throw power devour out there
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I don’t know why IG likes building characters that stop you from playing the game. That’s what KanRa, Aria, Gargos, and Arbiter all do. There is a large set of characters that don’t have the tools to cope with the dominant neutral these characters possess.
It’s not fun being stuck in traps, assist setups that you can’t even DP, minion, or grenade vortexes. That stuff sucks the fun and competition right out of the game.
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Bass knows what he is doing. He is most definitely aware he can power devour both of those things but Sleep didn’t really use portal punches and when minions were out he was up close to Bass, so trying to eat minion hits leaves him open for Gargos to attack.
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That’s ok. 
Remember when you all thought Tusk was good? People are great at jumping to dumb conclusions quickly.
I don’t really have an educated opinion on whether Gargos is too strong yet. I’d prefer to let things play out for a bit before reaching any firm conclusions on the matter. I don’t get the impression that Gargos has been terrorizing events prior to now, or that the competitive scene has really explored the matchup thoroughly.
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Winning a tourney with the help of A.I. Is something I never thought about .
I think sleep could have still won without using Gargos but he did it anyway because it was the easier option.
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You mean characters that completely ignore neutral lol
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Spinal STOPS the opponent from gaining instinct and meter. That means if Bass had held Sleep in the corner for more than 2 combos, Sleep would have NEVER been able to recover. But Bass failed to do that. So he lost. If it werent for Sleeps impressive escapes, shadow counters, breakers, and confirms, Sleep would have never won that MU.
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Gargos isn’t overpowered. Sleep was hardly the only Gargos at EVO - Rico ran him for almost the entire tournament and there were a few others sprinkled throughout pools. All of them achieved greater and lesser success pretty much commensurate with their skills.
What Gargos is is just incredibly momentum based. When he gets knocked down he is absolutely free, with some of (if not the) worst defense in the game. That means a lot in a game where oki pressure is already so strong. Gargos can and does lose whole fights off of getting touched once. On the flip side, Gargos with 2 minions out+instinct is basically GG.
Super-heavy momentum swings is not a new or untested character design philosophy, and it’s not inherently unbalanced when done right. Your job as the player is to keep Gargos from gaining that critical mass of nonsense that renders him an unstoppable force of destruction. This isn’t S1-S2 Spinal’s skulls or Fulgore with his pips - there is no guarantee that Gargos will ever do well enough to get the dreaded 2 minion combo out. Getting a single one out is simple enough, but 1 minion can be dealt with relatively easily if the player is good and makes the right choices. Even 2 minions can be navigated successfully if you are observant and focus on bringing them down. But the key point is that for Gargos to have 2 minions out, it means he has to some extent won in the neutral already, and you have failed in your task to keep him weak and relatively honest.
Your mileage may vary with this design philosophy, and no, dealing with Gargos plus McStabby and Fatty certainly isn’t “fun”. But getting locked down by Spinal in the corner isn’t much fun either. You’re in the corner because something went wrong in the neutral and/or defensively, same as you’re staring at two minions because something went wrong in the neutral and/or offensively. Gargos got to be so powerful in the first place because he did well in the neutral, and now you have to deal with the consequences.
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I don’t think it is fair to say Gargos = free Evo.
I’m sure there are many Gargos players that signed up to compete that would disagree with you.
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Sleep earned his win. To say otherwise is actually insulting, not to mention the idea that Bass is the “true” EVO champion when he lost convincingly.
Gargos is brutal no doubt, but it has to be in the right hands. Past champion and renowned KI veteran Rico Suave didn’t even qualify into Top 8 when using Gargos.
Also, let’s not forget that there’s always someone who says a character is cheap after a tournament… Fulgore, Jago, now Gargos… It never ceases to amaze me that if someone thought long enough, they would realize the value of the player.
Sleep has been coming in Top 3 in so many tournaments that he finally earned his victory after hard work and dedication. Don’t slander it by proclaiming he used a cheap character. Admittedly, Bass simply didn’t have what it took to beat Sleep.
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I think calling a character too powerful and not fun are two very different things. It’s much harder to debate someone about what is fun and what isn’t.
KI has a bunch of mechanics and craziness that can often make things ridiculously difficult on defense. And I personally sympathize with people who find dealing with such mechanics as un-fun. But it’s what makes KI, KI. The vast majority of these sitations are just a fraction of the match and not it’s entirety. Usually when such mechanics take up more of the match they get toned down (S2 Wulf instinct for example). So I have confidence that IG will tone down gargos if he turns into minion mania. For now it remains to be seen. What we know for sure is that Sleep and Bass are damn good players who belonged in the finals.
And shout out to @llPaulBll I was doubting you and notching your negativity to a lack of adjustment to the new mechanics. You proved you’re still a top player and your matches were a lot of fun to watch. I hope you stick with the scene for a bit and wait to see how S3 turns out after the dust settles from the new characters and patches.
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I don’t think so. He made no attempt to try and counteract the minions with shadow shield bash. And power devour only really works from the distance. Which sleep wasn’t giving him anyway.
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That’s pretty much what I said. He couldn’t power devour minions because Sleep was not staying away like Gargos tend to do, otherwise he could have sat there and filled up his skull stock but Sleep was staying on him.
Of course. Because sleep knew that he couldn’t play the long range game with power devour in play. BUT…it also meant that the moment bass dropped power devour regardless of skull count he would be locked down by minions.
Get rid of the minions. Priority one.
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