With the reveal of Eagle, i think this is the end of KI (2013)


If nothing else it can be used to make something along the lines of an IMAX-sized screen for the game in your home, or they could even make it look like you’re playing KI in an arcade cabinet. Not every use of VR has to be direct immersion into the game world.


Most 2d fighters have nothing rendered in the fore ground, the only thing you’ll see in VR is a big empty void on te other side of the stage.


No thats the whole gambit as of now, maybe someone will find new and interesting ways to implement VR later. I like the young conker demo (everything but the use of Conker’s name)


What about the humiliation moves and more Killer Instinct characters, you know introduce new fighters to Killer Instinct. (No guest fighters tho)


I like both of those ideas. I would love humiliations to be implemented after Ultimates. I definitely want more characters.

I also would like more guests, but I really only want Joanna and The Agent.


I’ve thought about this a lot, actually. What’s the difference between SFV’s top players complaining about how bad SFV is, and KI’s top players complaining about KI? Is it just a matter of the SFV people being right and the KI people being wrong (ie, SFV is a bad game but KI isn’t)? Is it a matter of authority (SFV’s detractors have 10+ years experience in the genre but KI’s scene has less experienced players on average)?

I actually have what I think is a good answer to this, but curious what other people think before I say.


I am STUNNED that you were able to get through all that without some sort of stallout erasing everything. Also, what are they doing to your car? Adding tank treads?!


I just came back to say that even if this is “the end” it is an amazing end. KI already have 4 yo and aged very well, just add the missing stages and the rest of the ultimates and it will be a golden end.


LOL, just replacing a tire. Took them a while to get it in though, as there was a bit of a line. Yeah, I was worried there’s be a stallout, but thankfully my phone behaved, even if my car wasn’t. :slight_smile:


I’d say there has to be a stopping point one way or another. A sequel would be great, and tbh I’d prefer that over building on top of the current KI for as long as possible. Season 2000 anyone?

Think about it, a new KI allows for a fundamental change as far as the game is concerned. So many unique modes, ideas and mechanics were added to the game. I do think KI has a “complete” feel atm. For me, a new KI up date hasn’t to do with just graphics and what not, but I’m eager to see all the ideas of the current KI perfected and tightened. Thanks to KI2013, the franchise has a backbone in the new age, know where it lies thematically and mechanically and while adding content to the current KI is alright, I think perfecting everything we’ve come to know about the current KI is a lot more intriguing.

The current KI is a classic IMO there will come a point where it stops updating, but that doesn’t mean it’l die. People still play third strike.

There’s also the fear of not getting a sequel but whatever…


I think SFV has a huge scene that is impervious (or appears to be impervious) to the criticism of the top players. And since Capcom doesn’t do anything to incorporate player feedback into the game - even when they do patch the game, this is just sort of complaining about death and taxes. It’s like people complaining about DLC and microtransactions. Everyone is happy to jump on the complaining bandwagon but they keep buying games. As an aside, saying SFV is “a bad game” would be going much further than I would be willing to go. I think there are very legitimate complaints about the game, it’s balance and style, and it hasn’t really captured my interest.

I think with KI the competetive community is small with a lot of people really excited to try to grow it. It’s not impervious to complaints, or people worry that it’s not.

I think your point about KI players having less experience is close to true, but not because of the competetive players not being “qualified” to talk about fighting game balance and design. I think a huge chunk of the KI scene is actually historically casual players who have been drawn into the competetive scene by KI. These players aren’t used to dealing with the toxicity of the FGC and they are fans of KI first, and competetive gaming second. I think the SFV community is primarily hardcore FGC gamers who have moved into SFV because it’s the latest thing. They are competetive FGC players first and SF fans second.

Or I could just be full of ■■■■. But this seems like what’s happening to me.

Edit: it’s probably worth pointing out that the responsiveness of KI’s devs to community feedback has actually exacerbated the problem. It has made the complainers increasingly strident as they struggle to understand why their particular feedback hasn’t been incorporated and also lead people to feel that countering their negativity is important to communicate to the developers. Whereas since Capcom isn’t listening people who feel that SFV is fine just shrug and move on.



But then how will your season 4 compare to my dreams? :nail_care:


Not sure how we jumped from a possible 4th season to season 2000 lol. But yeah, if that’s the choice; season 4 or a new game, and you prefer a new game, then I can certainly respect that opinion. I just worry that we don’t actually know what the choice is or even if there is a choice.

As far as what, exactly?

See, cuz when you say this, it sounds like you just want things in the current game improved upon, which can be done to this particular game.

Can you expand on this idea of “perfecting everything” that you’re saying here? I’m not entirely sure what you mean. In what ways would this perfecting necessitate a brand new game? I’m not trying to disprove your opinion, as that’s obviously not possible. I’m also not trying to be contrarian. I’m just curious what you think would need to be done in a new game that can’t be done to this current game.

I mean, as far as I can tell, graphics can be improved, animations improved, new content added in the form of modes, characters, stages, outfits, Shadow Lords missions, items, guardians, etc. Just curious.

Very true.

Well it’s kind of a legitimate concern given that it took 20 years to get this game. Yes, this game seems to have done well, possibly, but if MS gets the impression that fans want something else, even if it’s just a sequel, it’s entirely possible that they simply move on and spend the money someplace else.

I don’t believe this was the first time someone tried to bring back KI. In some ways, the planets (and Adam Isgreen) had to align for this to happen. To think that it’ll happen again just because this one has done well… I dunno.

MS has been hearing from a lot of fans that they want more old IPs brought back. It’s just as possible MS decides to take KI’s budget and hire a new team to bring back some other dormant franchise like Battletoads or MechAssault, etc.

I get that this game has to end at some point. I do, and maybe that time is now-ish. Eagle, ultimates, and then we’re done. I just hope that the next step after this game is a new game and MS doesn’t simply move on to another project.


I do want things from the current game to be improved upon, and by things, I mean everything. I’m the type of guy to treat the last project as a valuable prototype and start from the ground up to make something better than the last…

For instance, lets say I created megaman. when megaman starts showing his age, or even way before that, I’d have already taken what I’ve learned from building him and started to create a brand new robot called X. Megaman will never reach X’s heights no matter how much you upgrade him. And if you change megaman from his core to his exterior, he ceases to be megaman and would still turn into X.
I just wanted to write that lol

But seriously, when I say perfected and fundamental. In talking about the engine, the mechanics, making the game with a lot more foresight and planning. Ig once stated they couldn’t get the ultimates on all stages due to camera angle and how the stages operated for instance. All that left us with ultimates in the dark and they’ve ether said this cant be changed or it would take up too much resources. Its design limitations like that I feel a new game can overcome. I don’t know what IG has tried and failed as far as what the game was meant to do but I can bet there were things they wanted to do but could not. Or at the very least, they’ve had ideas which they think would be much better executed in a new game.

What I want to be done with a new KI can be done with this game, but if that’s the case, by the time we’re finished it would be a brand new game.

I want the lighting upgraded based on how they’ve done it now
I want the graphics upgraded too (don’t hurt me)
I want the source code/engine or whatever it is to be upgraded as well
I want even the sound effects
I want to see where the art-style/direction/visual aesthetics go.
How does the lore change?

I’m curious about how the game would evolve and grow if there’s a new installment every couple of years. I do not wish to see a game slowly being coated a new paint every now and then, nor do I wish to see it falls back into a deep slumber from which to never return.

Seasons are fine too I guess if you wanna keep people interested…I guess. There’s gonna be a point when there’s only bug fixes though and slapping on a new paint job wont be be enough forever.

I also “think” having a new game every now and then speaks to the relevancy of the game. Check Street fighter for instance or MK.

Ether option is fine by me, but I’d no doubt want a new KI.


They should allow us to have more Shadow slots than just 2. Before calling it quits on KI, Maybe even fix the Shadow downloading issue that happens so often even though the shadow was never deleted. Add a proper system to delete Shadows in the list that people keep freaken having fights then deleting there shadow soon after making it impossible to issue a challange back.

Or add a pently system for repeating the same action over and over, So people can stop deleting shadows everytime they fight a shadow forcing people to not issue a match back.

The player is punished for there actions if they repeatedly delete shadows over and over everytime they win a match making the other player unable to initate a match back. This should force players to think twice before doing this.

Plus fix Friend’s shadows never appearing when you want to challange them directly. These things needs to be worked on. Shadow Lab needs attention to make it fluidier with these things fixed.

I don’t know whats the cause of the shadow failing to download and its annoying to have it when doing Shadow Survival this even happens in Shadow Lords as well during Shadow Encounters.


Just so I have this clearly:

You want the lighting, graphics, engine and sound effects upgraded. I’ll agree that on some stages, the lighting can make characters win poses look a bit strange. As far as graphics, sure, I look at Injustice 2 and I do kinda pine for KI characters that looked that good. Can you tell me what you want upgraded with the source code / engine though? Also not sure what would constitute upgrading the sound effects. Could you elaborate?

As for the art style / visual aesthetics, why would you need a new game for those, and what do you mean about seeing where they go? I mean, it’s not like they can’t keep putting new stuff in this game. Same goes with the lore. Just curious.

Now, I’ll agree that the initial reveal of a new season doesn’t have the “wow” factor as revealing a brand new game, but beyond that? This game’s garnered more attention and players with each successive new season. Sure, some players fall off, I’m sure, but the numbers seem to be trending in the right direction. I guess I don’t see why it’d be more advantageous to end this game and put out a new game right now, especially if it’s going to be a full, retail fighter that people play for a few months and then discard.

As far as the pint where the updates only involve bug fixes and a new paint job, I think we can all agree that the game will be officially “done” when that time comes to pass. New seasons involve characters, stages, modes, etc. I don’t see why this game couldn’t accommodate another eight characters, more stages, more outfits, perhaps an arcade mode and a substantial story blowout in Shadow Lords. If everything was done well, and I have no reason to believe it wouldn’t, people would keep playing and enjoying it.

The game’s been out for almost four years and it’s arguably stronger than ever. Some games, like WoW, dwarf that number of years, yet while some would like a new game, others just want more of what they already enjoy. I can certainly see if you prefer the former. I tend to prefer the latter right now. Maybe my mind changes after a potential 4th season. Either way, I’d be happy so long as we got one or the other, as I agree 100% that I don’t want the franchise to go away again.

Games can still be relevant without taking the “sequel every few years” route. I mean, if you’re going to use Street Fighter as an example, SF4 came out in 2008. SFV didn’t come out until 2016. Everything that SF4 got in the meantime were the kinds of upgrades and updates that KI gets, they just weren’t released as separate games. If anything, SFV is now following more of a seasonal, KI style than doing what they’ve done in the past.

Don’t get me wrong, not every game has to use KI’s formula. I love MK’s new releases just as much as I love KI’s new seasons. I’m just saying that there’s room in the market for both types of releases. Personally, I think MK’s size, budget, team, marketing muscle, etc lend itself more to that kind of sequel formula, just as KI’s size, budget, team, marketing, etc lend itself to a more seasonal approach. Just my two cents though. :slight_smile:

Amen, brother! My free AF Sadira shadow takes up one slot, and I’ve honestly been wracked with indecision on who to put in the second slot. If I had more slots, I might feel a bit more at ease to use more characters.

Absolutely (on both counts). I would love to be able to clear out my match queue of people that I can’t even challenge. If more slots is my #1 request for this mode, then being able to clear out shadows from the queue that I can’t challenge is easily my #2 request. Great call on both counts!


When I say Art direction and style I’m talking about the shift from SF4 to SF5 for instance. The art direction can’t really change too much mid game, I think the only way to do this would be a new game. The art direction changed a bit from DH to IG though. DH went for a more bulky look with males and females being less that proportional. On the old forums, a dev even said sadira’s proportion only allowed for for her to have 6 or so ribs.

As for the source cod or engine upgraded isn’t really the right word, more like next time program the game with a little more foresight. I’ve heard the devs said every now and then (the way DH did this, this isn’t really possible to do without changing a massive amount of things)…Next time around we will be able to avoid that.

Sound effects because, hey why not?

I Do want a new KI not because it will be shiny and new, altho that’s a bonus, but more so to see where the game is headed. I do think certain things that would make the game better (as there’s always room for improvement) can only be done with a brand new game and that this current KI doesn’t really warrant putting too much resources into anymore. Anything is possible however.


While this may qualify as a necro, playing with Eagle and having to recover the arrows has made me aware yet again of how the KI team has pushed the envelope and added things that change the industry (Instinct mode led directly to V-triggers in SFV; Gargos’ minions led to Darkseid in IJ2, etc.).

I want to reiterate that another thing that could put us on the map would be a choose-your-own-adventure story mode that doesn’t let you retry a lost battle. Starting with the Jago/Retro Gargos battle from Shadow Lords, depending on how you win (or lose) you get routed into a certain path (i.e. lose with Ultra you play a couple of games with Shadow Jago next, win with a regular combo awesome victory you get Orchid, win with an Ultra, you get Jago). This would be true to KI2’s old multiple endings, give offline a shot in the arm, drive OCD people crazy as they tried to get achievements to find the path to every character (seriously, give like one rare path to Arbiter and watch everyone go nuts trying to find it) and create anticipation for the next installment as everyone tried to decide which of the like eight endings was canon (Have multiple possibilities depending on whether your last fight is Jago, Kim Wu, Tusk, Gargos, Aria, Eyedol, Fulgore or Maya, for example).

People have pointed out that story modes are a huge investment in time and resources for something that people play through once (or less, if it’s SFVs). However, that’s only if you do things the Netherrealm way and make the animated, sit-back-and-watch part the key element of the story mode. Break the mold again guys - with a good flow chart, a decent script, several dozen transition drawings/stills and the voiceover actors back, you can get something for cheap that people will have to play through 30+ times to get all the bonuses if you link them to difficulty and ending. Plus, imagine how annoyed everyone on the message boards would be if the super-rare Eyedol ending required you to lose via Ultimate right before him and the computer hardly ever did it. @rukizzel might just attain nirvana.

Just my thoughts. Again, if there’s any desire to allocate resources to this, I’ll gladly spec it out for free.


Omg Eagle is out, time to uninstall.


@DesirousCat3658 yes. Yes it does.