Why does Cinder not have an on-screen meter for his fired up state?

I’ve always been puzzled why Cinder does not have an on-screen timer that measures his fired up state. Just simply a timer that fills up from empty (0 seconds) to full (8 seconds), and is brighter/flashier when full. Make it have a flame-like aesthetic to match the character.

First of all, if you agree that you would be able to make better gameplay decisions if this was on screen (whether playing as Cinder or against him), then like this post. I want to see how many people agree.

It doesn’t seem like KI is averse to on-screen meters, considering many characters that need one have one (including Maya, Aganos, Eyedol, Eagle, probably others I forget). Aria and Mira mess with the health bars, too. Another character that uses appearance instead of a meter is Kim Wu, and I’ve seen just as many complaints about her as I have Cinder.

Some might say you can take a look at Cinder’s appearance to see if he’s fired up, but there are numerous problems with this:

  • On many stages and color configurations (in fact, I would argue almost all of them!), it is basically impossible to see the difference in color.

  • When Cinder is moving, it is very difficult to track him, especially as you are trying to think about your own gameplan. Looking at a stationary meter is much easier.

  • Even if you could see it, Cinder’s appearance is strictly an on/off thing, there is no sense of how close he is to getting fired up back. This makes decisions around combos, reversals, or walking forward (to watch out for low inferno) much more difficult.

  • Beginner players have no idea that Cinder is subtly changing colors when he gets more powerful. Even if they suspect that “sometimes” he gets a powerful move, they have no idea that it’s based on a timer (maybe Cinder takes some other action to get it?). A meter solves all these problems and eliminates all the guesswork because everything is clearly based around a visual timer. It makes everything self-explanatory instead of needing to ask someone.

  • It makes his instinct much clearer to understand (“the gauge always stays full!”).

I can’t begin to tell you how many beginners have asked me what the heck is happening when Cinder sometimes does something more powerful. Saying “it’s based on a hidden timer, you can see when the timer is full by a very very slight color change” invariably follows up with “why didn’t they put a gauge on the screen?”

So I am curious myself, and I would like to ask the developers why Cinder does not have an on-screen meter?

And, perhaps, is it too late to add one?

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Yes!!! That’s what he needs!!

I never had a problem with Kim Wu or Cinder’s resource management personally, but it’s true that having a meter on the screen would make things much easier for people who can’t spot small details or mentally keep track of their dragon count. It’s pretty hard to consistently read that.

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I can concur with this.

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Now that I think about it I just assume he’s always fired up. Never noticed that I don’t even bother keeping track of it.

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I honestly like Cinder’s fired up state better than another meter or timer to look out for. I like it better because it keeps me focused on my opponent and what he’s doing. I don’t need to be distracted by something else.

Fighting a good Eyedol that knows how to manage their resources is difficult because I have to take my eyes of off Eyedol just to see if he has the option to do his Canceling BS.

It’s the same with Hisako. I would rather have a subtle indicator than another bar for a character (although I know it wouldn’t really work for Hisako or Eyedol though)

I think the did Cinder this way just to be different and to make him stand out even more. It seems they took great care to make sure everyone felt unique.

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If I recall correctly when the devs were first doing their breakdown on Cinder I remember them saying that they didn’t give it a meter because they just wanted it be a bonus that happened every now and then rather than a primary resource that you worked your entire gameplan around. At least that’s what I remember. You’ll have to forgive me if I’m a bit fuzzy on the details, it’s been nearly 2 years since his release.

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Yeah I think this is part of the problem. It’s so hard to keep track of that you just assume he always has it, which makes him harder to fight. Maybe Cinder’s low inferno wouldn’t be such a “problem” move if you could understand when he has access to it. Maybe Cinder players wouldn’t throw pyrobombs (and waste the fired up) if they had information that they were getting the fired up back 1 second from now.

But what if the subtle indicator is so subtle that you can’t even follow it? I would argue a subtle meter above his shadow that turns bright red when full is exactly what you’re looking for here. It doesn’t distract your eyes from the fight any more than trying to look at his fired up state, except you know exactly where to get the information and you know you won’t be mistaken when you need to know.

Well, first of all, if they said this then I’m pretty confused… that doesn’t sound like a great design for the character, lol. But either way, why would they do the visual state at all in this case, if they just wanted it to sometimes be a random bonus? They have information that they want to share with the player (whether Cinder is fired up or not), they are just doing it in a way that can never be reliably read. I don’t think making it more reliable to read would break the design.

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Although I think that would be an objectively better for indicator for everyone, I just think it wouldn’t be as cool.

I guess to work around this you could have both indicators present functioning in a match. I personally would want him to shout some corny line every time he’s fired up too lol.

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In theory, it should be pretty easy to code, right? Script it to an already existing feature. Heck, the timer mechanic is already present for Arbiter’s grenades.

If you really, really want to, you can track Hisako’s wrath by her glitch effect. If she’s full, she glitches. I wouldn’t recommend it though. :sweat_smile:

And yeah, Cinder should have a fired up bar. It’s really hard to see on some color/stage combinations, and just in general it’s hard to keep track of. I’m kind of like Sith, and generally just default to assuming he has it.

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I mean, I’m sure it’s very easy to code a bar that goes up based on a timer. The time consuming part is getting someone to draw the art for the bar, get it approved at all the meetings, then test it thoroughly, etc. I’m sure the coding part is done in under an hour, but the rest takes a long time. (Ah the joys of modern games)

I have no idea where the devs sit on this idea though (which is why I’m asking), or to what extent KI will be updated in the future, or whatever. But I do think that it would make a really big improvement both for people who play Cinder and those who regularly fight against him.

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I agree. I would see it as a big quality of life improvement. Cinder may not be top 5, but since the potential damage change, he can be very, very strong in the right hands. His fired up state has many consequences in regards to cash out.

The meter would be kind of a berf when you think about it, but a good one.

Honestly I’m in the camp of I think it’d it be nice if they did add something along the lines of a meter and have been since day 1. I just mentioned that because it’s what I remember the devs inital reason for why it is the way it is. Sorry if there was any confusion there.

Really, I haven’t been a fan of Cinder’s redesign at all. I much preferred his more straight-forward approach in the original…not that anyone in KI1 had anything but a straight-forward approach. But my opinion of Cinder as a whole is a different topic altogether.

Please add a meter.

Thank you.

It would be a quality of life change. Not imperative, but it would be nice. Maybe a little sphere that fills up next to his shadow meter UI

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I agree, though personally I never had trouble with seeing when he is fired up. There is also a burning sound effect hearable if you adjust sound options in specific way, but that is indeed a stretch for good indicators.

IMO Kilgore needs this kind of meter more - one that would show how many gun attacks he is far from being overheated, because in the heat (hehe) of battle it is hard to keep track.

For example, you need overheat ASAP for safe canonballs, but if you miscalculate and use it after 4 gun attacks and get punished, or use one gun attack too much for making sure, opponent makes good read and you also get punished.

There is also a factor of losing heat level when you don’t shoot often - like, I will shoot 4 times and then for some reason I stop it (for pressure, rockets, whatever), and I am 1 gun attack from overheat, but after few seconds (unprecised by anything but labing it out) I lose temperature and I am two gun attacks from overheat.

It can be confusing and there is really no reason for NOT having any HUD indicator of that.

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Definitely on board with this. I’ve really really wanted to know why cinder never had a HD indicator for his fired state since like forever. Seems like a strictly better design call, for users of the character and for people playing against him.

just like fulgore would be perfect.

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Cinder and Killgore.
Killgore is easy to determine once FULLY over heated, but the steps up to Overheat can be convoluted.
Cinder Definitely needs this. Sometimes I cant even tell becasue of how fast the match is moving.

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