Why are so many pros not using Counter-breakers? Also suggestions to help them

With so many complaints about the combo-breakers, it makes me wonder. Are they even doing anything to prevent their combos from being broken?

Here I have a few questions and also some suggestions. As a community we all need to help those un-familer or having trouble with the game.

Why aren’t you using your counter-breakers? Counter-breakers exist for a reason. Because you always break nearly everything in the game this is why they exist. Now for those who don’t because it’s “risky” well to explain that is simply put: even if you aren’t counter-breaking you are always playing a gamble just as much as your opponent.

My suggestion witht his scenario: When you’re dominating your foe with those combos you’re no safer than he is. So if you’re getting broken because they’re guessing or getting a read, you can bait them into the counter breaker. I suggest trying it, hopefully it will help.

Are you varying your combos?

I have a habit that can be hard to break in of itself, and that’s using alot of the same auto-doubles. Sure it’s comfy but you run the risk of being predictable, especially with characters like Riptor and Jago.

In this case, one suggestion is that you do something new once and awhile. Having someone break your medium AD? throw in an a light AD or a manual or just something new.

Finally: your opponent, do you know what their habits are?

Obviously knowing your MU is important with who vs who. But in KI you’ll find some people vary their playstyle’s differently from what is considered optimum way to use them.

For example: some jagos will zone for a bit. others will rush in and smack you down. I’ve even played against some Glaciuses (Glacie?) that will just but heads with me up-close rahter than standback and zone me.

No two people will play the character the exact same way. Another Jago player may play different from the one you fought last.

Knowing the player behind the character in the way that they behave can benefit you.

KI’s combo’s system has a uniqe tools at your disposal so you can make your combos as uniqe as you want them to be. So when the opportunity arrives, why not use it?


1 thing I’d like to bring up is that habits can carry over from character to character too. Just the other morning, I was getting bodied for well over an hour by the same player - initially because he was picking different characters constantly and I had trouble with the matchups. However, despite the change of characters, I slowly began to see a pattern emerge with how he used those characters in certain scenarios, regardless of who he was playing as. For example, he liked to punish my throws with a neutral jump, and as a result, he would get a full-combo punish with me being locked out. Once I realized this, my own predictability changed to counter this and I began to throw less and instead, I started to throw out anti-airs knowing he was going to jump. Unfortunately, I didn’t get any wins before he eventually left, but I certainly made it harder for him in the process. Just my 2 cents. Adapt and survive or don’t and die. Simple, really…

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It’s the same with any other fighter. You know your opponent is really good at avoiding and punishing the Lariat? You’re gonna be less likely to use Lariat.

You know your opponent is really good at breaking mediums, or likes to guess mediums? You’re gonna either avoid mediums, counter break mediums, or whine about your mediums getting broken.


Break yes, counter break yes. whining about them getting broken: unacceptable : p


The way I see it, depending on the health situation and how comfortable I am breaking my opponent, getting my combo broken and returning to neutral is a better option that whiffing a counter and giving my opponent a full punish. The risk of me eating a 50% combo (since I’m Aria) isn’t worth adding 20% to my combo. Maybe in a long set where I can get an accurate idea of someone’s breaking habits but in a tournament setting, no way.


In a tournament you still have otherways of knowing your opponent’s habits to some degree and unlike just playing ranked, you actually may have more time depending on the circumstances:

Well I suppose it depends on the tournament’s rules. If they allow two matches per set, then you can use the first round as an opportunity to get to know your opponent.

I don’t know if the tournament allows you to observe the fight of your opponents either. But if they do, you can watch the match that occurs before yours. In the semi-finals for example: when you have to fight the winner of the match before yours, you can watch and get an idea on the behavior of your next opponent.

In cases where you won’t be able to observe the opponent before you fight them, such as te first round for the tournament you still have the first match to get to know your opponent before it gets to ugly.

The time you have in a tournament will vary but whatever time you have should be valuable before that red life bar starts appearing on your side.

Even as ARIA you can still take advantage of this opportunity to know your enemy. Yes the lack of ability to heal potential damage will make this more difficult than others. However unless you’re on the equivalent of your second life bar or something you should still be in pretty good shape at the start of the match.

If you know your enemy well enough in time you can turn the tides.

While many (every) high level players will school me in every regard of KI and “prove” how their methodical ways are why they are the best, I do believe it’s the very thing that makes them so good that also is holding them back!

Nearly all (but not all) tech scientists and engineers of the metagame would have us believe in falling back on KI’s past 2 games of “complete health draining unblockables” and their solution to keeping them out is to concentrate on the Neutral aspects.
Many will claim they’re not BUT if they weren’t, why the search for the perfect tech and counter matchup play? Why such little faith in the Combo-Counter Breaker system if they want to win beating their opponent and don’t care which character is the best?

Swordsman09 and C88 Pink Diamond are two very special active KI players. They don’t care about how to play fighting games when playing KI, they play their character in KI.
YES, we’ve watched them get downloaded and/or not know specific matchups as well as they could… But we see them getting better like Saiyans every tournament. We’ve seen them burst in ability in seemingly Super Saiyan ways and work wonders with just pixels of health.
It’s only a matter of time before they play certain counter-picking players enough that they will have finally downloaded the matchup specifics and will KI the hell out of their competition.

YES, the Breaker System is risky… It ensures a nearly consistent RPS element that is the basis for all FG’s in the first place. Opening up and taking health only matters if you confirm… You choose to confirm at your will.

There’s a ton of rewarding things to learn and it’s not that anyone can break a combo, it’s that not everyone can counter a breaker consistently, not everyone can recover from a break consistently… Those that can do either/both in great consistency and still win are the better players.
But you really don’t have to know the super tech… You just need to know your opponent. You need to play them often.

… As much praise as Bruce Lee gets from many in the FGC, many forget his philosophy on form and using specific moves too often. KI tries to give a mouthful of his philosophy in a gaming environment, many try to conform it… But he’s a nonconformist!!!

[quote]Jeet Kune Do favors formlessness so that it can assume all forms and since Jeet Kune Do has no style, it can fit in with all styles. As a result, Jeet Kune Do utilizes all ways and is bound by none and, likewise, uses any techniques which serve its end.

[quote]Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water
in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.[/quote]

And most importantly summing it all up:

[quote]The Three Stages of Cultivation — The first is the primitive stage. It is a stage of original ignorance in which a person knows nothing about the art of combat. In a fight, he simply blocks and strikes instinctively without a concern for what is right and wrong. Of course, he may not be so-called scientific, but,
nevertheless, being himself, his attacks or defenses are fluid.
The second stage — the stage of sophistication, or mechanical stage — begins when a person starts his training. He is taught the different ways of blocking, striking, kicking, standing, breathing, and thinking — unquestionably, he has gained the scientific knowledge of combat, but unfortunately his original self and sense of freedom are lost, and his action no longer flows by itself. His mind tends to freeze at different movements for calculations and analysis, and even worse, he might be called “intellectually bound” and maintain himself outside of the actual reality.
The third stage — the stage of artlessness, or spontaneous stage — occurs when, after years of serious and hard practice, the student realizes that after all, gung fu is nothing special. And instead of trying to impose on his mind, he adjusts himself to his opponent like water pressing on an earthen wall. It flows through the slightest crack. There is nothing to try to do but try to be purposeless and formless, like water. All of his classical techniques and standard styles are minimized, if not wiped out, and nothingness prevails. He is no longer confined.[/quote]

Sure, I’m saying these words and I cannot prove them through combat to many I feel they would help… I never claimed my Jeet Kune Do was stronger, merely that I believe in it.

(Of course, Bruce does fear the man that has practiced 1 kick 1000 times… So what does he know? :wink: )

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Before I even read very far into this thread, I want to remark that I think the premise is incorrect. Plenty of pros use counter breakers often, as far as I ever see. Even MyGod, who someone here suggested “doesn’t gamble”, landed at least one counter breaker during his games in the Evo finals. This idea that counter breakers ought to be avoided is something I think is championed mainly by people who aren’t winning majors.


I’m speaking mostly of the self-proclaimed pros that want a core piece of KI’s game-play to change because of the supposed “guess breaking” argument they keep making.

I should of worded that topic a bit more clearly.


Guessing is a part of every fighting game and in numerous parts of KI - it’s not going anywhere, and until they realize that, these so-called “pros” you speak of will never reach the true height of their capabilities and will end up standing by as they watch other players learn, adapt, and surpass them in every way imaginable. :cyclone:


That’s the whole point of my argument. If they keep getting upset about guess-breaking then they need to change up their strategies a bit to curb people from trying anything or feeling like they’re in the clear.

That’s why I also made thos suggestions in the original post, so that they can have options to consider if they want to win. As a community I think it’s helpful to help even those who say they’re the best at the game. While I admit I am pretty good with some of my mains I can sometimes discover things I never considered before.

That’s what’s funny about this game: you think you’d know alot about your mains and boom! they surprise you another way.

If that’s the case then they should try it themselves.

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I think counter breakers should be taken out completely.

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That is a bad idea all-around. If that were to happen, nobody would ever be able to finish a combo as their opponent would break them at every opportunity with no repercussions whatsoever. Nobody would ever do medium or heavy ADS or linkers because they would all be too easy to break. Then, because everybody starts to only use lights, they become more predictable and get broken anyways. The ONLY way you could get damage through effectively and regularly is via manuals, and that’s something not everyone has been able to master (including myself). This means only the best players will be able to effectively combo without getting broken - and when a FG caters ONLY to the best, then that’s a FG that fails. Even with manuals, the current limitation to manuals after linkers even makes them predictable, so yeah… At that point, it’s not a FG anymore because there would be no actual fighting taking place - just breaking in a broken game.


Then combo breakers would never allow you to achieve a victory if you were unfortunate enough to go head to head with someone who is so skilled that you have no chance of making a comeback.
This means you will have to mix up your combos more than usual, unless your opponent is to skilled to be stopped and is a master with combo breaking.

That;s why your memory patternsa re a good idea. In fact, you should go to combo breaker training as well.

That works both ways. You will just get broken constantley and become frustrated. I suggest you think about that before you even consider that option. As of right now that tool is there for you to use. Removing it will only make things harder on everyone including yourself.

They are there so you have a chance to stop people from constantly breaking your combo, simple as that. Just learn to use it at the right moments and keep your foe on their toes.

People keep asking for a change of the combo system but it seems like they aren’t doing enough to keep their combos from being broken. I’ve already summarized all that pretty well on the top.


I second this and would like combo breakers to deal damage too like they did in the previous installments. Combo breaking is way easier anyways since there’s little execution involved anyways . Its just pressing 2 buttons now.

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I’d rather they leave it as is however. Even if it simpler that’s why you have counter breakers in the first place and just as easy to execute so it should even out the two. Just a matter of who’s got the gull to outwit the other in a situation to turn the tide.

The problem with the old combo breakers wasn’t that the execution was difficult, it’s that the timing and rules were obscure. You didn’t know if you’d hit the right button but got the timing wrong etc. Plus some characters had charge combo breakers, which meant you had to charge them up while others were instant DP moves. It was all over the place.

I like this system much better, but if you are going to make breakers so easy then you need a counter breaker.

exactly! and that I believe is where the balance lies. The tools are there and 90% of te time if you’re getting comboed you can do something about it. This is Combo-Breaking

It also applies to the attacker. If you don’t want your combo to get broken, you can do something about it. This is Counter-Breaking

the tools are there they just have to take advantage of it and use it.

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